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| Super Soft 2 random question http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53113 |
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| Author: | DanKirkland [ Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Super Soft 2 random question |
Looking at using some of this for some highly figured birdseye maple. My question is when it's used in conjunction with a bending iron does it generate any nasty fumes/odors or toxins? I will be bending inside my apartment. If that's not a good idea then I'm open to suggestions. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Soft 2 random question |
I had the same questions last year when I tried it. I felt better after reading the MSDS: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 6qNzMYkc0v It doesn't seem to be too bad. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Soft 2 random question |
If you can open a window with a fan blowing out you may be much happier. I use it alot in my shop, while maybe not toxic it sure will seem like it is in your apartment while you are bending. I have a giant exhaust fan in my spray room. It gets its air from my shop so that helps quite a bit. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Soft 2 random question |
I don't think it is the most benign stuff around: https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/glycol-ethers.pdf One aspect of the typical use in guitar building that doesn't show up in the MSDS is that the compound is heated during bending. I would assume this would volatilize the glycol ether in a much more significant way than using it cold. My inclination would be to set up my bender outside and use a chemical respirator. |
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| Author: | TimAllen [ Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Soft 2 random question |
Good ventilation is always a good idea. I always try to stay with the safest materials, such as fish glue and shellac. As I read it, unless the MSDS is fraudulent, SuperSoft II is safer than many of the materials we typically use in woodworking. I have a respirator with chemical cartridges, and I've used it when I have had to be up close and personal with a lot of epoxy. However, I have not felt it necessary to use it with SuperSoft. While the danger of nitrocellulose lacquer's fumes are hardly a matter of opinion (for example), there are other products that are more of a personal judgment call. One question I have is how necessary it is to use SuperSoft for birdseye maple. Is it tough to bend? In a quick search I couldn't find much indicating that it was, but that doesn't prove anything. It's mentioned here: http://www.projectguitar.com/forums/top ... ods-maple/ I've needed SuperSoft to bend curly maple without cracking it, but that's a different thing. If you have a cutoff from your birdseye wood, maybe you should try a test bend. Safest thing is no chemical at all. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Soft 2 random question |
TRein wrote: I don't think it is the most benign stuff around: https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/glycol-ethers.pdf One aspect of the typical use in guitar building that doesn't show up in the MSDS is that the compound is heated during bending. I would assume this would volatilize the glycol ether in a much more significant way than using it cold. My inclination would be to set up my bender outside and use a chemical respirator. The term glycol ethers refers to a large class of different compounds with a wide range of characteristics and toxicities. The document in the EPA link refers to only three such compounds and none of them are the particluar glycol ester in SuperSoft, which is diethylene glycol monoethyl ether (DEGEE). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much information out there on toxicity of DEGEE by inhalation. The EPA published a report on its general toxicity in 2009 and cited one study from 1997 done in rats. The rats were made to breath DEGEE at three doses for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 28 days. At the highest dose, there was so much DEGEE in the air, they were breathing not only vapor but actual droplets. The air was saturated. The only effect considered to be toxicologically important was minor irritation of the respiratory tract. Nothing else. This has the usual caveat that it was done in rats, not humans, but the high dosage was the maximum physically possible and for a long time and it had no toxic effects. If you consider how much exposure you would actually get to DEGEE as a luthier bending a set of sides treated with SuperSoft, it would be an exceedingly small amount and over a short period of time. The amount that is in the treated wood is small. Even if you had your nose located directly above your hot pipe huffing the steam while bending, the amount you could potentially inhale would be exceedingly small. If it was my day job to bend SuperSoft-treated sides all day, five days a week, all year, then I might have some concern. I doubt any of us here are doing anything remotely like that. I think breathing wood dust in the shop is a much bigger concern. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Super Soft 2 random question |
Jay, Thanks for the clarification. |
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