Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Mon Nov 25, 2024 6:46 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:55 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1256
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I don't know much about the finer points of guitar building. I'm making a new bridge for my arch top, because the G has to be angled with the b and e, and not with the E. A and D. It is like 3-4 mm too short. I checked the clearance that I had so that I could get the new one close, and dial it in. I don't have the convenience of the height adjusting screws.

Then I wondered if the string clearance would be the same if I just had the strings tuned down; still straight, but not stretched with tension, It would be easier to do if you don't have to keep tuning them down. I checked, and it seemed that they were about .5 mm closer to the frets with no tension.

What causes that? Is it a combination of things?

An observation:
Making a bridge for an archtop is FAR MORE DIFFICULT than making one for a violin. It should look cool, but it is a lot of work.

_________________
Why be normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:28 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 1703
First name: John
Last Name: Parchem
City: Seattle
State: Wa
Zip/Postal Code: 98177
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The guitar bends under load. The more the load the more it bends. If you are doing any setup the guitar needs to be tuned to pitch.

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com



These users thanked the author johnparchem for the post: Hesh (Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:51 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:51 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 2150
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
My understanding is that the top of an archtop is slightly depressed under load - I remember reading an article about a mandolin builder measuring that deflection. Liutaio Mottola has a little discussion about the downforce, its basically two times the sine of the break over angle times the string tension.

https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/downforce.htm

He also has a great little wizard for calculating the amount of compensation needed for different string compositions - I've compared to doing with at tuner and its pretty darn close.

https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae ... sation.htm



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Hesh (Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:52 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:41 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1256
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I used that calculator to figure out string pressures on the belly and the neck when I was designing the archtop. Like a big dummy, I didn't write it all down on a page in my notebook and label it. Bowed instruments have a greater percentage of pressure going into the top, and less on the neck than a guitar. I didn't look at the compensation one before.

I don't know what I was thinking. It would be impossible to say that the strings will pull the nut up 2 mm, and 1 mm shorter; and the bridge will sink 1 mm, but the compression on the body lengthwise will raise the bridge 1 mm. All of those things could happen, but unless you are making the same model of the same woods, and test the pieces with quantitative deflection tests; each instrument will be different.

Thinking about it; something I did when I designed it, but didn't do yesterday; I guess I have something about what I just said, but I have no idea about the actual numbers. But having movement is good. Tension, to a point, will bring out more sound. I do have a violin with a very heavy, strong, flamed birch back with a very light, .28 sg Engelmann top. With medium Dominant strings it sounded choked. I put on lights, and it is the easiest to play violin I've made. Just about 12% less tension.

I set the bridge somewhat yesterday; still WAY too massive; but playing it, the treble seemed stronger. On one piece especially, an alteration between paired notes on the e and b could not contend with the thumb on the open D. They sounded stronger, I usually had to really push them. Maybe the D is just not booming. I won't know until it is finished. I have to finish it, I miss playing and hearing it.

_________________
Why be normal?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Chris Ensor, Jim Watts and 50 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com