Dyes give a more homogeneous appearance, but I think the vinegar/ steel wool solution acting on the tannins is the much nicer looking of these two examples. It makes me want to build a sapele guitar and ebonize the whole thing.
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| Ebonizing a neck. http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52805 |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ebonizing a neck. |
Ever since I saw this done on a guitar built by Dion Guitars, I’ve wanted to give it a try. There were several YouTube videos on how to do it which like most how-to-vids on YouTube required a bit of sifting before settling on a plan of attack. If you don’t know what it is, it’s basically white vinegar, some washed 0000 steel wool, a plastic container, and several days time while the vinegar breaks down the steel wool. Using a foam brush, I started with a wash of very strong black tea to add additional tannins to the surface, aiding in the chemical reaction. I let that air dry for an hour or so, then applied the vinegar mixture. It starts to turn dark almost immediately. I let that dry and repeated the process. I let it hang in my cure room for 2 days, then applied 4 very thin coats of Ecopoxy. Anyway, I like the way it came out and will definitely be doing this again. Best, M |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Very nice! |
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| Author: | rbuddy [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Looks great all around. What was the underlying neck wood? Thanks for showing and the recipe. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Looks great. I've never tried that on mahogany before, assuming that is what it is. If you boil the steel wool in vinager it speeds e process up to just a few hours. |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Beautiful match to the EIR back! |
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| Author: | martintaylor [ Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
looks great! I'm curious as to how you applied the Ecopoxy. Brush? Rag? how long between coats etc. Thanks |
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| Author: | dpetrzelka [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Beautiful work Michael - stunning back strip too. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
That turned out nice! |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
rbuddy wrote: Looks great all around. What was the underlying neck wood? Thanks for showing and the recipe. It’s sapele |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Lovely work, Did the end grain take the ebonizing more and give that nice shaded look to the heel, or am I seeing it wrong? Did you have to do any "nib" sanding after treating the neck with tea and iron solution? |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
martintaylor wrote: looks great! I'm curious as to how you applied the Ecopoxy. Brush? Rag? how long between coats etc. Thanks I made applicators out of cotton rag, kind of like FP pads. Apply very light coats. You want to wipe off as much Ecopoxy as possible. I let each coat cure overnight in a heated room, though 6hrs is likely enough. Rub out with 0000 steel wool between coats. I applied 4 coats, and then rubbed out with 0000. M |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Clay S. wrote: Lovely work, Did the end grain take the ebonizing more and give that nice shaded look to the heel, or am I seeing it wrong? Did you have to do any "nib" sanding after treating the neck with tea and iron solution? I sanded the neck to 320 and raised the grain with alcohol followed by another light 320 pass. I applied the cocktail twice and found I didn’t need to sand before applying the epoxy. The color is petty consistent. The endgrain on the heel is only slightly darker. |
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| Author: | George L [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
I love that look and plan to try it myself one day. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Burton LeGeyt does something similar, but with dyes. Here's an example from an old OLF thread: |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
I love that look. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Dyes give a more homogeneous appearance, but I think the vinegar/ steel wool solution acting on the tannins is the much nicer looking of these two examples. It makes me want to build a sapele guitar and ebonize the whole thing.
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Clay S. wrote: Dyes give a more homogeneous appearance, but I think the vinegar/ steel wool solution acting on the tannins is the much nicer looking of these two examples. It makes me want to build a sapele guitar and ebonize the whole thing. I’ve got 2 A-style mandolins on the bench with sapele back and sides. They are both getting the ebonizing treatment for sure. I haven’t decided on a top top coat, but I’ll likely pore fill and shoot them with endurovar. |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Michael - lovely look and nice looking finish. I am building a maple/redwood topped Stauffer necked guitar right now and will be dying the neck black-ish. Since the dyes are alcohol soluble, I have in the past sprayed with a rattle can a few coats of shellac before using the finish, but this Ecopoxy sounds intriguing. Did you use it as a final finish? Also, I am seeing it sold for many hundreds and even thousands of dollars - do you have a source that sells smaller quantities? Thanks Ed |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Ruby50 wrote: Michael - lovely look and nice looking finish. I am building a maple/redwood topped Stauffer necked guitar right now and will be dying the neck black-ish. Since the dyes are alcohol soluble, I have in the past sprayed with a rattle can a few coats of shellac before using the finish, but this Ecopoxy sounds intriguing. Did you use it as a final finish? Also, I am seeing it sold for many hundreds and even thousands of dollars - do you have a source that sells smaller quantities? Thanks Ed Yes, it is being used as a final finish. I bought mine from West Wind Hardwood Inc. up in Canada. It was $115CA for the 1L kit which included shipping. It is described as EcoPoxy® Build Kits - 1L RESIN + 250ml HARDENER on my invoice. If you can’t find it, I can do a bit more digging to get you the exact product. Best, M |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Looks beautiful! Did you do that finish on the neck for feel, or looks? Looks like the not shiny finish would make a nice feeling neck. Alan |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Thanks Michael I am a volunteer carpenter on 2 tall ships and we have several different kinds of epoxy on hand from very runny (like git-rot) to as thick as you need it. We thicken it like peanut butter for many applications. It would be easy and convenient to get the small amount needed from the storeroom. Is the Ecopoxy pretty thin? Is it the consistency of Z-Poxy used for grain filling? Ed |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Ruby50 wrote: Thanks Michael I am a volunteer carpenter on 2 tall ships and we have several different kinds of epoxy on hand from very runny (like git-rot) to as thick as you need it. We thicken it like peanut butter for many applications. It would be easy and convenient to get the small amount needed from the storeroom. Is the Ecopoxy pretty thin? Is it the consistency of Z-Poxy used for grain filling? Ed The ecopoxy is thinner than zpoxy and is applied more like FP than a pore filler. I’ve got no data on the durability of ecopoxy and only gave it a try because one of my favorite pro builders was using it with lovely *cosmetic* results. That said, the ecopoxy feels great under my hand. It’s silky and fast. I can’t say I’d try other epoxies as a final finish. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
I've been building a size 2 guitar (first one of this size) and have been trying a number of new things with it. One of them is a simplified method of coloring the neck. I use vinegar to soften glue when making repairs. I noticed it leaves a black stain if I don't use stainless steel tools in combination with it. I thought I would see how well it might work as a way to color the wood by just dipping steel wool in vinegar and rubbing it on the wood. It did work somewhat. The neck shaft was some mahogany I got from cutting up an old coffee table and the heel block was a darker piece of mahogany that didn't match. I was hoping the "stain" would pull them together but it didn't quite work out that way.  The picture was taken part way through brushing on a finish and before I knocked the neck on the floor and snapped the heel block (along with some neck wood) off. I glued it back together, touched it up and continued on with the finish.  It is interesting how differently the wood took the steel wool /vinegar treatment. Spending more time and adding tannins may have improved the out come but for this guitar I am O.K. with it. Being the first one of this size and working through a few different materials and methods I'm not as concerned about perfection as I might otherwise be.With the right wood materials the simplified steel wool/vinegar treatment might work fine. |
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| Author: | dofthesea [ Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Liking the look of it. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Very classy looking instrument! B |
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| Author: | Mark Mc [ Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ebonizing a neck. |
Nice job Michael. I ebonized the neck of this bouzouki-style instrument. The neck was tasmanian blackwood, same as the back and sides. Attachment: F60DBEC1-F5BA-4089-959A-5E98CF58EBC8.jpeg It was exactly the same approach that you used. One thing for people to be aware of if they try this is the ebonized layer on the surface is very thin. You do it as a final finishing stage before applying your clear top coat. You can easily sand through the black layer to reveal the natural timber colour below. But if this happens you can darken it again by applying more ebonizing solution. |
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