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Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52785		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
It felt good to pull out my plane. :)

First time I've seen a Tama guitar. An OM clone from the 70s. So, doing a refret and to my surprise, no barbs on the tang. (Sorry to mislead you with my topic title). I've seen it before but there are usually shop made file dings in the tang, but these are just smooth.

The tang measures about .03 and the fret slots match exactly. There's no glue in there and they seem to have stayed put, snug as a bug in a rug all this time.

I'm using Jescar fret wire that measures .032 including the Barb. They press in with firm finger pressure. I'm pretty confident that I can glue them in there good, but I am wondering if I am going to end up with a lot more relief than before. Sort of like, decompression fretting. Has anyone ever run into this before?Image

Pat
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
Ah, yes - the famed and rare Tama flattop.... Indeed a very nice guitar from the past. I have a client who has owned one since new. I did not know the fret lacked barbs....

As long as your truss rod works well, I don't see a problem using barbed fretwire. You could plane or sand a slight relief in the fingerboard before fretting, I suppose.

Let some others chime in before finishing the guitar....
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
I didn't hear anything concerning in your plan. So your neck should be stable during the fret removal or install. If in doubt, monitor the neck during the process and if it moves you can take corrective action.
Author:  B. Howard [ Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
The .030" slot could be a problem.... spec is .023"-.025". I would be more worried about frets popping loose constantly with basically nothing but glue holding them in slots that barely touch the barbs.

I use a set of pliers like Frank Ford shows in this article to crimp the tangs to make them fit wider slots (or force the neck staright when compression fretting). http://frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Tec ... fret4.html
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
I would be inclined to use the Don Teeter method without the part where you widen the slots with a saw. Which is to say - epoxy the frets into the existing slots. The epoxy should fill the voids between the barbs. I would avoid 5 minute epoxies and use one that dries harder and sticks better. If you use stainless fret wire that would delay the time some poor soul will be cussing you for epoxying in the frets. [:Y:]
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
this isn't that big a deal you need to order some of the wider tang material from jescar
they have tang width to .0245 that sets the tangs plenty wide to hold. Also using some tite bond as a filler when you refret will help.
what is being used to relief adjustment? if you have to compression refret you may need a selection of the tangs to control relief.
if you are using compression to hold the neck widening the fret slot is not a good idea, so get a better measurement of the slot.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
Yeah, I feel more comfortable putting more metal in there. I was a little worried about the neck gradually compressing over the next weeks/months.

I wonder why stewmac doesn't stock that fret material. LMI carries one oversized tang but only by the pound.

It has a truss rod although it's a little difficult to turn, so I don't want to push it. It has a 5mm hex key adjustment at the headstock. Does anyone know the best way to lube that type of nut?

Pat
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
I would be inclined to agree with John. Titebond is a good choice in my view because the glue is not necessarily intended to adhere fo the fret wire but to take up space, fill gaps so the barbs on modern fret wire can mechanically lodge themselves in potted glue. Titebond is easier to work with and WAY more finish friendly if you screw-up and don't notice a snot blob on the finish until it's cured.

Regarding too much relief good on you Pat for even recognizing that this is a possibility. My hunch is that if you get your routine down in filling a slot with Titebond, installing the fret and cleaning up the excess glue before it dries once cured the glue will prevent the fretboard kerfs (fret slots) from causing forward bow.

Interesting problem you found with these, we've not encountered one of these before. Looks like their over sized fret slots were done because of the wire they sourced which is clearly non-standard. It does remind me of WAY back in the day of bar frets but these have a separate tang and top if you will.

Regarding the hex key adjustment can you back it all the way out and off the guitar? We back them out and off, use a tooth pick to put some grease on the threads and reinstall. Lubing them up will often get you more travel and hence more adjustment.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Working on a Tama & the frets have no tang
if you need compression wire I have some
here is a tidbit for compression fretting
to get to know how the neck is moving I have 2 cups of lead shot that weight 6 lb each and I support the headstock , place the weight on the shoulder and I can watch the neck flex with and without the weight , then as I start to fret I keep reading the neck. I want to see about. .007 to .009 back bow with out weight and flat neck with the weight
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