I use a handheld random buffing thingie I got from an auto parts store. It's designed to polish cars out but works well on guitars. I admit though I've never achieved a Martin or Taylor mirror glaze before.
Something like this:
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| Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coat? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52716 |
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| Author: | Dolmetscher007 [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coat? |
I have never buffed out clear coat to a mirror shine before. I have made some pretty large investments (well... large for me!) but I still do not have the ability to buff out clear coat. I know of two common solutions... — Use progressively finer polishing compounds with those foam polishing pads that you chuck up into a hand drill. — Use polishing compound on round cotton disks that are spinning on a motorized arbor. One thing that has always bothered the hell out of me about power tools is the fact that almost every single tool in my workshop is almost nothing more than an electric motor that turns something in a circle. Whether it's my table saw, chop saw, power drill, drill press, router, and even my band saw... they are all just a motor turning something in a circle. The power drill pads look to me like they probably do not work that well. I am sure they CAN work, and they CAN eventually get a good finish. But I feel like they will wear out quickly, you would have to buy many of them to keep the different "grits" separate. You'd also have to buy several shapes, in order to get into bends and angles. And in general, it just seems like they might be okay for a one-off emergency, but if you had to buff 10 guitars, you'd end up spending a lot of money on buying and replacing these pads. The big-ass motorized arbor buffing stations looks awesome. But there is no way I will be able to sink the $800+ on a rig like that. So, I got curious. The motor on that thing is a 3/4 horse-power motor that uses a belt and pulley to turn a round metal bar at a rate of 715 rpm. Well, I just finished assembling my brand new Grizzley G7944 Heavy-Duty Floor Drill Press. It has a... 3/4 horsepower motor that spins a round metal bar at a rate of between 140 - 3,050 rpm. I feel like it is a logical workaround to just buy some of those cotton disks and some flanges to hold them in place. You may have to do some machining or retrofitting something to get it to work properly. But, it seems like my drill press is just a horizontally spinning version of the buffing station from StewMac. I am smart enough to know when I am out of my element though, so... since I have never used a buffing machine, I was hoping to ask some of you more seasoned veterans with experience in this area... what do you think? I am of course concerned that pushing inward, in from the side, on a spinning drill press is not how that mechanism was designed to work. But can one of you tell me how hard you actually press against the cotton pads as they spin? I you just kind of hold the guitar and lightly bring it into contact with the spinning pads, I think it would work just fine. If you have to lean in and really bury the guitar into the spinning pad, then it might be just wishful thinking. Thanks for your help guys!!! |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
You forgot elbow grease. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I suppose anything is possible. But unless you are also a machinist with tools and can make the required arbor to even mount a flannel airway buff and support collars on a drill press your money would be better spent on the SM outfit. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
the buffer is absolutely a tool you need for finish. I use this arbor https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1681-B ... 344&sr=8-2 and to that a 1/3 hp 1725 motor manzerna medium finish and 175 Finish is so important to make your guitar look good. Without it you will have a hard time making it look perfect. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I did what John suggests. With a used motor & 12" buffs I'm probably in for <$300. Works great and hang on the wall when not in use. Pat |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Personally I wouldn't try using a drill press. I think it would be awkward. What I do is sand the finish up to about 1000 and use polishing compounds and a random orbit sander with a buffing bonnet on it to polish it to a gloss finish. I stay off the edges for the most part and finish them up by hand. It's not the quickest way to do things, but it works and is relatively safe and cheap - two things buffers aren't, for the novice. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
WOW! WAY TO EXPAND THE OP AFTER THE CONVO STARTS!!! THAT'S RUDE!!! Make a new comment next time! For that reason, i'm outta this, good luck! |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
?!? I think you are right Brian. No one answered the O.P. directly. Chris suggested elbow grease. You suggested the Stew Mac set up. John offered the Shop Fox as an alternative. I suggested the cheap option of sandpaper, a buffing bonnet and a R.O. sander (more work). Either we don't have experience using a drill press as a buffer, we think it's a bad idea, or both. Perhaps since no one could offer advice directly pertaining to using a drill press as a buffer we should have remained silent. |
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| Author: | Dolmetscher007 [ Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
B. Howard wrote: WOW! WAY TO EXPAND THE OP AFTER THE CONVO STARTS!!! THAT'S RUDE!!! Make a new comment next time! For that reason, i'm outta this, good luck! The WYSISYG editor that this forum uses has some different markup code for inserting URLs. My OP has like 6-7 links in it, and when I went to "Preview" to make sure they would show up correctly, they still just showed up in the code, so I just clicked Submit to see if it was an issue with the Preview function (which it was), and then I quickly just clicked "Edit post" and finished what I was planning to say. Def. wasn't trying to be... all-caps rude(!!!) Sorry if it seemed that way. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I have a friend who uses the drill press with a buffing wheel successfully , however he builds banjo's. Little easier to buff. He says the answer is in the sanding Before the finish coats. The better the sanding is done the deeper the shine and better the finish will come out . I am not sure myself , however his work does pop when its finished . |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I use a handheld random buffing thingie I got from an auto parts store. It's designed to polish cars out but works well on guitars. I admit though I've never achieved a Martin or Taylor mirror glaze before. Something like this:
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I did think about using a drill press before, yes. I didn’t buy into it myself ... that said... a buffer spins a polishing wheel... seems to me that a DP could do the same, although you’d probably need a small wheel or a giant DP. I ultimately decided to go with the SM buffer. My reasoning was that it was simply the right tool for the job and I wanted to invest in my building efforts long term. So could one use a DP? Probably so... is it the heat tool for buffing? Probably not:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I use a radial arm drill press all the time. It can be positioned in almost any way I want. I have good results and I do not believe I push hard enough to cause any issue with side loading on the bearings. That being said, I wish I had a dedicated buffer and will get one soon. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I have tried just about everything over the last 40 years and have settled on professional grade automotive compounds and buffers. This is my newest buffer. Adams Polish mini swirl remover. It is a geared random orbital that has an aggressive long throw. Best 3" or 4" diameter machine I have ever used. For compounds I prefer Meguiars 105 cutting compound and 3M Perfect-It ultra fine for final polishing. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Barry-- This is where the OLF really shines (intended pun). What type of finish are you using, and what sanding are you doing before the buffing? That finish looks fantastic! The buffer you are using is not super expensive, so I might have to get one. I recently committed to the idea of a "stationary workpiece, handheld buffer" way of buffing out a finish, as opposed to the "stationary buffing arbor, handheld workpiece" method. It just works better in my space. Having a great handheld buffer is the next step. Thanks for the info! |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
The problem with handhelds for guitars is now you need to hold the guitar in a vise or something while buffing the sides. How do you get over this hurdle? |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52583 |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Don, I use Cardinal nitrocellulose lacquer. I sand twice during spraying to pre-level the finish. I wait a month after the last coat, then sand with P800 dry, CAMI 600 wet, 1000 wet, 1500 wet, 2000 Abralon pad wet, and 4000 Abralon wet. I know this is a lot of steps but it is what I have found necessary for getting a defect free, high gloss. Takes me a full day to sand and buff a guitar. On this guitar I also used a new product from StewMac for touching up areas where scratches showed up during final buffing. It is called Kovax Tolecut Finish Repair System. It has tiny 1" square pieces of sandpaper up to 3000 grit that you use dry. You stick them on a hard rubber block they provide in the kit. It works really well and is very quick to fix the problem areas. In regards to holding the guitar stationary versus moving the guitar against a stationary tool, I also prefer the former. Doing the back or top is easy but the side buffing is a bit more tricky. My process is pretty simple. I just stand the guitar on one side to buff the other side. I hold the body with one hand and the buffer in the other. I do each side in about 3 sections. This new buffer is pretty heavy, but I was still able to manage it with one hand. I tried to hold the body in my troj clamp, but the buffer is so aggressive that it vibrated the body to the point that it wanted to slip out of the bottom. So I just set it on top of my workbench like I normally do. I have a rotisserie similar to your link for holding guitars during spraying, but that would not work for sanding and buffing. I apply quite a bit of pressure during buffing to get the compound working. That is probably the most important thing to know when using automotive wet compounds. You have to start off with pressure and then you let up after a minute or so to let the compound get the final gloss. I struggled with buffing for several years until my son stumbled upon this key skill and taught it to me. Here is a link to the Kovax stuff. It is well suited to finish repairs and leveling drop fills. https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Sanding_and_Polishing/Sandpaper_and_Finishing_Papers/Kovax_Tolecut_Finish_Repair_System.html |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Thanks for the info, Barry! Just to clarify one thing about my cantilevered rotisserie: it is pretty darn stout. If the bracket screws can stay attached to the guitar part under buffing pressure, then the rest of the rotisserie is up to the challenge. But if I need to just set the parts on my bench, that’s OK too. |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Barry I have spent my purgatory time grinding and sanding fiberglass boat hulls. We had (in the 70's) large angle grinders and rigged up a series of overhead blocks (pulleys), tied one end of a rope around the body of the grinder, through the sheave, to a gallon milk jug filled with enough water to counterbalance the grinder. Be easy to rig in a shop as you are moving the body to be under the tool, not moving the tool around. Ed |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Don, you are most welcome. Hope it is useful. Don't hesitate to ask any questions if you need more details. Ed, that sounds pretty cool. I do not think it would work for me during buffing though. I want to have full control of the machine and it needs to be moving very smoothly. Actually, the weight of the tool is useful because you let the weight compress the buffing pad which does a lot of the work. So most of the time, the weight is not really an issue except when you are lifting the tool from the bench to the guitar. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Barry, do you know if those Kovax papers are P or Cami? Have you ever tried a spinning sander, like an angle grinder? I did a soundboard once with the stewmac foam pads that go on the drill with liquid automotive compound and it actually worked pretty good, although a little messy. Seems like an r o s would not give you enough action. Unless that longer throw the key... Pat |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
I do use a drill press to buff necks and other smaller items. My buffer is a generic version of the 3M Super Buff 9" wool pad. It seems to last forever, and can be reversed (2 sided). https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-100 ... 11285.aspx I also prefer to buff the body stationary, using a backstop. This allows me to see what I am doing during the process, which IMHO keeps me out of trouble. The top and back are buffed with the body laying flat. The sides are buffed with the body on edge, resting it on my lap and using the side of the workbench as the backstop. Buffing is away from my body, across the grain (and more importantly, across the sanding scratches). I am buffing with a 3/8" variable speed drill and this adapter: https://www.detailing.com/store/3m-0571 ... shaft.html To adapt the 5/8" threaded socket to chuck in the drill or drill press, I turned a short section of 5/8" threaded rod down to a 3/8" shaft on one end. My compound of choice is 3M Finesse-It II. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Pat, I don't know if they are CAMI or P because they are not labeled. But at that high of a grit there is not a lot of difference. Back in the day, I use to buff with a lambswool pad in an electric drill. Yes, it was very messy. Yes, the long throw action of my new buffer is one key to its effectiveness. (Previously, I used small pneumatic ROS for buffing and the short throw would make me work 2 to 3 times longer.) Also, the geared movement of the Adams provides additional aggressiveness to the tool. Most random orbital sanders and buffers use an offset weight to create the orbital movement and when you apply pressure the movement slows or even stops. The gearing of the Adams and a few other high end buffers keeps the random orbital movement going independent of pressure so you can bear down and do some real cutting. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ever thought about using a drill press to buff clear coa |
Barry-- I know you identified the buffing compounds you like to use, but which pads do you use? Thanks again for all of the info. I actually found a great deal on this buffer on Amazon. |
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