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Tea Bag Shellac Method
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52503		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Tea Bag Shellac Method
Not sure if I am doing this right. I ground up the button shellac in a coffee grinder but am thinking perhaps I should have just chopped it up instead? At first it was really cool, I could actually see it flowing and circulating then after a short while it seemed to just have stopped. So is the white colored gunk at the bottom the wax? I thought the wax was supposed to stay in the cloth tea bag. It's been two days now and the shellac doesn't seem to be the right color.

I'm thinking with this method you need to use less alcohol?
Should the bag be dipped in a bit more or is it supposed to just touch it?

Image
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
Hopefully Alan will chime in with better advice. When I do this, I have more of the bag in the alcohol. I want the shellac to be wet with alcohol so it can dissolve out into the mixture.

That does look like wax to me. I too thought it should stay in the bag (I have only done this with de-waxed). I wonder if the weave of the bag material is too open.
Author:  doncaparker [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
I have not used this method before. I am curious to see the answers from those who have.

Speculation:

I am having a hard time imagining what the white stuff would be if it is not wax. I figure the shellac solution (carrying the wax) goes through the cloth, then the wax settles. What stays in the bag are twigs, bug guts, and other flotsam.

It just feels like the bag should be in the solution. Maybe this is a counter-intuitive process, and I'm wrong. But if it is an intuitive process, then the bag should mostly be in the solution, not just touching it.

Again, looking forward to answers from those in the know.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
Calling Alan Caruth :D

I think I remember reading that the idea was to wick the shellac into the solution and the weight of the shellac in the back would push down and sort of squeeze it. Since I made it a powder it might be sticking to the bag. I will probably try lowering the bag and see what happens. IT could be too that the color is off because some of the color gets absorbed into the bag. But this stuff is a dark shellac. I've been currently using it, wax and all, simply be dissolving the chopped up shellac in the jar the 'normal' way and it has a nice rich dark amber color, this is a bit lighter.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
The video didn't come through for me.

When I do it I often have the bag just slightly immersed in the alcohol; maybe as much as 1/4 in, but usually less. The solvent wicks up into the shellac flakes, and it works it's way down nicely.

The wax will stay in the bag if you're using seedlac: the particles are bigger than they are in more processed stuff. Also, for that I tend to use T-shirt material, which may be finer. For processed shellac I get it de-waxed. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression there.

I never bother to grind the flakes up. That's probably a help in getting it to dissolve quickly when you stir it in and it settles to the bottom, but with the tea bag method you don't need to.

If the shellac is old some of it may have cross linked in storage. This won't dissolve properly, and will stay in the bag. It's also probably the fraction that keeps the shellac from hardening right, so you're better off without it.

This has really been a simple and trouble-free method for me since I read about it in Meyers 'Artists Handbook'. You may be over-thinking it.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
Thanks Alan.

The stuff I am using is Liberon buttons which has wax in it, only purchased it a few months ago. I reposed the pic so hopefully that will come through. But anyway there is this white gunk at the bottom I presume is the wax and if I want to dewax it I can decant or siphon it off. Next time I will just hammer the buttons into seed size and see how that works. I just checked it again and it is actually darker now.

Over all I like this method, you don't have to stir it up and shake it and I don't think I will need to run it through a sieve either though maybe that is still a best practice.

Now another shellac finish question. Is it ok to put lighter shellac on top of dark sessions already applied? Or is it the other way round? Also is it ok to put dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac sessions?
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Tea Bag Shellac Method
So there shouldn’t be that much wax in the bottom, I’ve had much better luck with coffee filters and, if you do get wax in the bottom simply decant Pour it off the top and filter it again. Dewaxing is a slow process so don’t hurry it.
The process will slow to a slow drip as the filters get clogged. Ur it will eventually go through.

On your question of color... the color won’t much matter what is on top of what, however it will become increasingly difficult to keep things uniform if you use different colors.

What you don’t want to do is put fat under slim. In other words if you begin using oil in the mix make sure the fatter (more oil) is on top of the thinner mix (less oil).

I’m not sure about using waxed shellac, it I would assume you don’t want the softer finish (waxed) under a harder one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
SnowManSnow wrote:
So there shouldn’t be that much wax in the bottom, I’ve had much better luck with coffee filters and, if you do get wax in the bottom simply decant Pour it off the top and filter it again. Dewaxing is a slow process so don’t hurry it.
The process will slow to a slow drip as the filters get clogged. Ur it will eventually go through.

On your question of color... the color won’t much matter what is on top of what, however it will become increasingly difficult to keep things uniform if you use different colors.

What you don’t want to do is put fat under slim. In other words if you begin using oil in the mix make sure the fatter (more oil) is on top of the thinner mix (less oil).

I’m not sure about using waxed shellac, it I would assume you don’t want the softer finish (waxed) under a harder one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



So you can see the pic and you are saying there should not be that much wax in it? What do you think the white stuff is then?

It's my understanding that the waxed shellac (or just shellac really) is actually harder then dewaxed shellac.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
jfmckenna wrote:
SnowManSnow wrote:
So there shouldn’t be that much wax in the bottom, I’ve had much better luck with coffee filters and, if you do get wax in the bottom simply decant Pour it off the top and filter it again. Dewaxing is a slow process so don’t hurry it.
The process will slow to a slow drip as the filters get clogged. Ur it will eventually go through.

On your question of color... the color won’t much matter what is on top of what, however it will become increasingly difficult to keep things uniform if you use different colors.

What you don’t want to do is put fat under slim. In other words if you begin using oil in the mix make sure the fatter (more oil) is on top of the thinner mix (less oil).

I’m not sure about using waxed shellac, it I would assume you don’t want the softer finish (waxed) under a harder one.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



So you can see the pic and you are saying there should not be that much wax in it? What do you think the white stuff is then?

It's my understanding that the waxed shellac (or just shellac really) is actually harder then dewaxed shellac.

The white stuff in the bottom IS wax


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tea Bag Shellac Method
Being somewhat a novice to the finer points of shellac, aside from better shelf life, what is the advantage of button lac? How does the yield of a pound of button lac compare to a pound of dewaxed flakes after removing the wax?
When I started brewing beer as a hobby I bought kits that had the malt syrup and hops in a convenient can - just dump it in some water, boil it, let it cool and add some yeast. When I really got into it I tried "sparging the wort" using malted grains, and adding hops. It was a lot more work, for very little (or no) improvement of the end result. I've gone back to canned kits for the small amount of brewing I do these days.
So I'm wondering - am I losing anything by taking the easy route and just dissolving dewaxed flakes in alcohol? What are the other advantages of using button lac?
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