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| Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52269 |
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| Author: | DarrenFiggs [ Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Came across a picture of a spline neck joint today, never saw one before, and was curious how you perform a reset on one of these with an elevated fretboard. Not much information when I did a search here, so I take it not many people use them? |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
I hadn't seen one before either, but if the pictures I found are the same ones you found, then it doesn't seem to be designed to separate. So I guess the reset procedure is heel slip like an integral neck. Unfortunate because if you just made the slot a little deeper than the spline and positioned so the end of it is under a fret, you could inject steam like with a dovetail. Have you tried to contact the builder of the guitar to ask if they had a reset procedure in mind when they made it? |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Looks like a very weak joint system to me.... Treat it like a doweled neck and convert to bolt on. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
No practical experience here, but looking at it from a woodworking point of view - you could saw off the neck with an oscillating tool (or other thin bladed saw), rout out the old splines, fix the neck angle, then replace the splines. I read Robert Ruck and some other classical makers use splines to attach the neck. Most classical guitars don't make provisions for neck resets, and with the lower tension of the strings need resets less often than steel string guitars. When they do, sawing off the neck and splining it back on with a biscuit jointer might not be a bad way to go, and make the repair less obvious than making it a bolt on. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Clay has it right. Spline joint is quite common with classicals, which should never need a neck set if made properly. I have to respectfully disagree with Brian. When properly done it is a very strong joint. It would be foolish to use it with steel strings, however. If a spline jointed (or Spanish heel) classical showed the signs of needing a neck set (high action and no saddle height left) I would be more inclined to remove the fingerboard, add a tapered slip of wood the same type as the neck, and recarve the back of the neck to compensate for the added thickness. As I said, this should not be necessary if the guitar was built properly from the start. I did this once on a Ramirez from the 70s. Ridiculously high action with baseball bat neck. The procedure cured two problems. Yes, the originality was sacrificed but the guitar remained in circulation rather than being stuffed in a closet, which is where it was headed due to complete unplayability. |
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| Author: | DarrenFiggs [ Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Yes, did a little more research last night, and it does appear these are used on classical guitars only and it's expected the guitar will never need a reset. However, this poses an interesting situation: https://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/ ... fedda91693 |
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| Author: | Paul Micheletti [ Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
I use spline joints to attach necks on my classical. Many big names do this too. It was used in Japan in the 70s, and brought to the US by Brune and Ruck. It has since adopted by many other builders. My splines end under the 13th fret on the body side of the spline. Drill through the pulled 13th fret and inject steam to pull it apart, just like a dovetail. Only pull out instead of up. But it should not need to be done with nylon string tension and proper neck material selection. |
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| Author: | DarrenFiggs [ Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Paul, are you building with an elevated fretboard as well? |
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| Author: | Paul Micheletti [ Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Not yet. I'm working on the first elevated fingerboard guitar now. I may have to abandon the spline joint as I'm having troubles figuring out the steps to do it. That little change in geometry of the elevated FB really throws a wrench in my build process. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Aside from making the guitar more difficult to build, what is the advantage of the elevated fretboard? |
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| Author: | Paul Micheletti [ Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
It does provide easier access to frets 14 and above on a 12 fret body joint classical guitar. The market generally frowns on cutaways, so this is a feature some players find beneficial. It's really difficult to sell a nylon string guitar with a cutaway. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Paul, you can still use a spline joint if you make the extension a separate piece. I've done it by cutting the slot for the spline into the heel of the neck first then create a rabbet for the fb extension on the neck blank back to the 11th fret or so. Attach you extension and proceed as normal. You now have a neck with an extension and a slot for the spline. Similar to doing an archtop neck. I don't know if that's of any value to you, but thought I'd throw it out there for consideration. |
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| Author: | Paul Micheletti [ Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Thanks Jim. I wish to have a single long neck piece that is both glued down to the top and glued to the fingerboard extension. The more solid that I make the fingerboard extension, the better the high notes sound up to the partial 20th fret. I did some finishing repair on an older Greg Byers guitar, and he used a separate fingerboard support on that guitar as you describe. Since those early elevated fingerboard guitars, he moved to having an integral extension. But he builds on solera, so that's an entirely different build process. I may move that way too if I can't figure out how to do a reliable spline attach on an integral extension. But I'm not giving up yet. |
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| Author: | DarrenFiggs [ Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Paul, could you explain this "integral extension" a bit further? I'm trying to visual how this is done. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
Hi Paul, You might be able to use a slot cutting bit to cut the mortice for the spline with an integral extension neck. Most of the photo's show the bearing below the slot cutter, but you could place it above the cutter to "extend" the shaft length if necessary. The cut could be carried up into the integral extension (even if the spline is not) as the mortice would be hidden when the neck is joined to the body. The mortice could be carried down through the heel if a cap will later cover it. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spline Neck Joint Question - How to reset? |
found one. https://www.toolstoday.com/v-10663-270- ... tdEALw_wcB |
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