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Bar clamps
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52044		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Bar clamps
I have no bar clamps. 4 wood screw clamps I found at a garage sale, and so m spring clamps. I see there are all kinds of bar clamps. I,d use them mainly to glue the plates on the sides. I will probably buy more for other tasks later, but what works good for that?
I have seen the in stores, but don't know much about them.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
By glue the plates on the sides, I'm assuming you are talking about gluing the top or back to the sides. I use cam clamps and many people use spool clamps for that task. IMO, cam clamps are easier and faster to place than bar clamps. I haven't used spool clamps, but I would think they are pretty easy and fast to place too. A go bar deck can be used for this as an alternative to clamps. I feel that bar clamps carry a risk of applying too much clamping force.

I have bar clamps of several different sizes, but I almost never use them for guitar building.
Author:  CarlD [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
I use a go-bar deck for gluing tops and backs as Jay said, but for other operations I have had pretty good luck with metal "F" style clamps from HF. Get several 12" (I used 5 today gluing up a neck heel, I think I have more than 20, they work for my side laminating jig), some 18", about four 24". I also got two 36". I've only had one break and they will replace it if it does. They are the best bang for the buck. Check their sales. The other clamps from HF I use a lot are the small spring clamps for linings and gluing purfling to bindings, cheap, stronger than clothespins and colorful if you're taking picks of your progress. If they break save them to fix other broken ones or toss them, like I said they're cheap. I've got two coffee cans full.

Since you said your other clamps came from garage sales these might fit your price point.
Author:  Woodie G [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
A go-bar deck with bars is a popular solution to achieve very even clamping pressure for bracing the plates and closing the body, and costs about the same ($390 for deck, top and back radius dishes, and 96 bars) as an adequate number of cam clamps (~24 at $18 each). Shopmade spool clamps are likely the cheapest of clamps to make up for closing the body, but they are cumbersome to use with an outside mold.
Author:  Ruby50 [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
A second on the Horror Freight bar clamps. I volunteer as a carpenter on a 149 foot long, 107 foot tall, 350 ton tall ship and they get VERY hard use. We have perhaps 50-60 in various lengths and I'll bet we only break 1-3 year. They are the only thing I have found of any value at HF.

Ed
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
Harbor Freight also makes a light duty 12 inch ratcheting bar clamp. It is basically junk, but is quick to set and comes with padded jaws. It is hard to "overclamp" with these clamps - if you squeeze the trigger too hard the clamp will break. If you catch them on sale you might get them for $2 apiece. They work O.K. for quick light duty clamping, but not much else.
Author:  CarlD [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
Yuhp. I've broken most of mine. They don't replace those. The little 6"ers are useful but you need to
CA the pads on.
Author:  Mark Mc [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
Long bar clamps are useful in furniture making and big project woodwork, but not for luthiery.
To clamp tops and backs to sides a go bar deck is effective, but then I discovered this method which I like better. Very cheap and highly effective.
http://www.anzlf.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5758
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
I have over 100 of those little spring clamps. One day I'll get some plasti-dip? and do the ends better.

I think of cam clamps as being bar clamps, so that was one option I was thinking of. Never used them, but they seem like they would be quick and easy once they are set close.

I don't use clamps much, and when I do, I don't tighten too tight; just have the wood touching. I glue center seams with rub joints, so I'm not worried about pressure.

I can glue some wide things using the workbench, but a few bar clamps would make some things easier. And they would free up the bench.

I've seen photos of that go-bar thing. It looks weird.

I have seen that video! It was of a young woman making her first guitar in her fathers guitar factory in Spain. I too haven't been able to find it. Very down to earth build if I remember. A cello maker in VA uses them, he calls them clam clamps; but for linings. I like the little spring clamps for that. It seems that they had a whole bucket of them in that video. I'll probably make some later. They do seem to be the simplest way, and if engineered correctly would not give too much pressure.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
For gluing the top and back plates, I made a box full of spool clamps. I bought a bunch of long carriage bolts, washers and wingnuts for this. I cut the spoils from plywood with a hole saw. I used plywood so I wouldn’t have to be careful about grain direction and snapping some of them when I applied the uneven clamping pressure, I lined them with cork. Tightening 40 wing nuts around the body started to hurt my fingers so I made a little handle. The hole goes all the way through the handle so it doesn’t matter how much thread is exposed. The wood under the ferrule fits the wingnuts.
Image


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Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
double post :(

Sorry for the giant picture, I didn't mean that.

I forgot to add that I too have had good experiences with the Harbor Freight F clamps. Apparently there are two versions out there, the blue and the black. I have heard that the black ones are bad but have no experience with them; they look pretty close to the same. I picked a few up whenever there was a sale and built up my collection. They are pretty inexpensive.

The plastic handled clamps with the orange trigger to clamp are worthless!
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
Thanks for that Bryan. I have a box of 24 spool clamps I made for violins and violas. I used knurled brass thumbnuts I got online. They work great. I'll show a picture later today. I made them to clamp in the channel, and not the edge. Violins have that overhang.

I looked on the Woodcraft site, I get 10% off this month for my birthday, and saw a little 4" F style clamp. Big enough for what I'm doing. I was just going to post that is what I'm getting, and you mentioned them. Maybe not the best quality , but they should work.
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
"The plastic handled clamps with the orange trigger to clamp are worthless!"

The problem with those small ratchet clamps is the pivot point of the trigger is just a plastic nib on either side of the housing. I fix them by drilling through the nib area and running a small screw or bolt through the housing. I fix them as they break. They are better at holding something in place rather than applying pressure.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
In addition to that problem, the batch I got kept breaking the plastic jaw on the end. This without even applying much pressure.
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
Must be that Bear grip you have Bryan! :P
Sounds like they changed the design for the worse. No matter what, they are light duty clamps, and not hard to overstress. As I mentioned in my first post, basically junk, but probably similar to cam clamps in clamping pressure.

I made some spool clamps similar to yours. I like the idea of the tool you made to tighten them. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to add a piece on the end to make it similar to a string winder?
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
You could definitely do that but I don't think it is necessary. The tool is fairly wide since the full wingnut must fit inside the ferrule. That results in a fairly fat handle that is comfortable to twist like a screwdriver or from the side with more of an opening a jar hold. The extra handle would be nice for quickly moving the wing nut a long way but I just spin it with my finger to get in the neighborhood when I set up to clamp. I really just use the tool to go around and tighten them all up at the end.

It didn't take long to make (even less time if you had a lathe), try it and see.
Author:  Bri [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
Cheaper than clamps, works great.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=elastic+ ... n3joUhz4LM

B
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
I bought four 4 inch, and four 6 inch f style clamps. If you buy 4 or more they discount it like 25%. I used the 10% off on a hand saw and blades. They seem like they will work great for the task.

These are my spool clamps with the thumb nuts.

Attachment:
20190614_142305.jpeg
Author:  Aaron O [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
I used spool clamps, and a go bar. No longer.

Besides vacuum clamping, I made my own cam clamps. So fast.

And yes, I have way more than this.
Author:  Pegasusguitars [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
I've used the same spring steel clamps for almost 30 years. Before that I used Klemsia cam clamps. They worked O.K., but were very cumbersome. These spring steel clamps are made from the large ring of a boxspring mattress. In some locales you can find a boxspring in an illegal dump spot, or you can buy them for next to nothing at a second hand store. 1 mattress will do you for life. It's a bit of a messy job, but an hour or so with a set of bolt cutters and you'll be in business. I did my first mattress with a hacksaw. Works, but is a real pain. A cheap set of bolt cutters works way better.The same size clamp will work on anything from ukes, or smaller, to guitars. You can simply bend them out by hand for a guitar, and bend them tighter for a ukes. I have bent these same clamps thousands of times and they never lose their spring clamping pressure. Spring steel is amazing stuff! I love them because I can hold enough to do almost half a guitar in 1 hand and they are very light. They never loosen up like cam clamps or others sometimes do. And, they are cheap, very cheap! I leave the cut end butchered like it came from the bolt cutter, drill a tight fitting hole in a 1" piece of 1/2" dowel and push the end of the spring in. The dowel does sometimes fall off, but rarely. Just make the hole tight.

The photos are just mock ups of a guitar and uke body because I did not have anything at the actuall stage of top or back assembly to show. You'll get the idea though. Same size clamps, different size bodies. Just bend em'
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
Bob, How is it in the land of Koa? Nice wood. So many choices. I think I like the box springs best so far. Maybe THAT"S what they used in the video I watched. I don't remember.

I like your saying. I don't have a favorite saying anymore than a favorite color, favorite car, or favorite Yes, or ELP song. I do like writing my devotional blog every morning, and I didn't get to it yet today. Feels like I'm missing something.
Author:  bionta [ Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Bar clamps
I use spool clamps but on my last guitar I wanted to glue the top with HHG and I knew I would not be able to get the spool clamps in fast enough. My solution was to make cauls and clamp them down with some bicycle axles bolts (called hub skewers by bike people) that I set up through holes in my outside mold. I clamp the plates with the sides in the mold. The skewers are essentially cam clamps so they’re quick. The cauls spread the clamping pressure. With a little rehearsal I was able to spread the glue, drop the top on the locator pins, slide the cauls in place under the skewers, and clamp them down before the glue started to gel. I guess about a minute or less. After that I added a few spool clamps to make sure the clamping pressure was even. All in all it worked out well. I like the bicycle skewer clamps. They’re pretty cheap - about $4 each.

Image
Author:  James Orr [ Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Bar clamps
Ken Nagy wrote:
I've seen photos of that go-bar thing. It looks weird.


But they’re really effective.

I know it’s popular to say you can never have too many clamps, but I can confidently build a guitar with my go-bars, a few spring clamps, binder clips, and a bridge clamp of some sort.

I have dozens of bar clamps, C-clamps, etc, but I built a number of guitars as I just described and still do for the most part. The only exception is using a vacuum fixture for the bridge and side lamination, and using the kerfing clamps from Advanced Shell Tech instead of binder clips (at .120", my laminated sides are too thick for binder clips now when you add in the width of the kerfing).

Spring clamps and a caul to glue the fretboard. Spring clamps and a caul to glue the head plate and back strap.

Go bars to glue braces and top and back to rim.

As mentioned, kerfing clamps from AST to glue the liners.

Vacuum fixture on the bridge.

I personally use LMI’s jig to join plates, but used the tape method a number of times and do something similar on cut-always. Tape for binding/purf.

From a woodworking perspective, guitars aren’t terribly complicated and don’t have to be too clamp intensive.


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Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
For gluing braces to a top or back, go-bars are far, far superior to anything else, except for maybe a vacuum frame.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bar clamps
bionta wrote:
I use spool clamps but on my last guitar I wanted to glue the top with HHG and I knew I would not be able to get the spool clamps in fast enough. My solution was to make cauls and clamp them down with some bicycle axles bolts (called hub skewers by bike people) that I set up through holes in my outside mold. I clamp the plates with the sides in the mold. The skewers are essentially cam clamps so they’re quick. The cauls spread the clamping pressure. With a little rehearsal I was able to spread the glue, drop the top on the locator pins, slide the cauls in place under the skewers, and clamp them down before the glue started to gel. I guess about a minute or less. After that I added a few spool clamps to make sure the clamping pressure was even. All in all it worked out well. I like the bicycle skewer clamps. They’re pretty cheap - about $4 each.

Image


The next arch top I make, I'll make an outside mold. That clamping idea would work great. Thinking about that I think that I could cut a piece of hardboard to fit on top, and cut to the size the linings would be at. I could clamp the belly on that, and tune it inside and out when the parallel braces are glued on. Then pull the hardboard off, slide the body with the back in the mold, and glue the top on. I'd have to glue the neck on last, and being an odd ball, I usually glue the neck on first, even before the back.

It would still work good for even just tuning the belly, or the back too for that matter. I have to make a cut out now clamp the belly on to tune it. Having the edge held down seems to be the only way to really judge what kind of spring and resistance you have. And you have to be able to get at the braces.

When I get around to making a flattop, I'll have to consider a go bar thing. When I made the 1/2 scale Stradivarius for the grandsons, I did it thicker than what I would make a real one. They are 4 young boys. I pre-bent the radius in the back, planed the center seam square, and glued the halves together, and the arched braces fit easily. It bent easily enough on the long arch when gluing on to the sides. If it was thin, clamps MIGHT have worked on the full back, I don't know. I didn't make a Solara. I didn't even know that there WAS such a thing. I have lots of ideas on that too, when I get around to that. Flat tops seem like they would be much faster to do. Maybe I'm wrong.
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