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Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52033		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
We have been thinking about adding Thermally Modified Sitka to our extensive product line of soundboard products. We recently sent a number of sets to one of our customers that uses the process for a test. I selected a number of tops with various character types. Finding 2 sequentially cut sets that were both thicker than most and had distinctly different character types, so that we could see and compare the before and after results. So with 16 sets selected, we sent 8 to get cooked. Turn around with approx 10 days shipping for both sending and receiving via Priority flat rate mail was about 6 weeks. We are happy with the results and the product. But as with most anything to and from Alaska; SHIPPING cost.. I have looked for threads about torrefied tops through the forum and see a number of you use the product. Stew Mac looks to be the only source for torrified Sitka tops. However I know their supply of Sitka is from industrially Clearcut old growth harvested Timber source. By no means is this intended to be a "Crack" at StewMac. They are a good outfit with a broad product line of Luthier supplies. But rather just a distinction of source of old growth Fiber between others and ASW. And we are "Just Soundboard" Producer Professionals.
Anyway, I'm calculating the added cost of Shipping- to and from the cooker, By Truck- Barge- Truck there, then truck- barge truck back to Prince Of Wales Island Alaska, plus the cooking cost. Add a percentage of degrade loss. I see we could offer the AAA Grade Torrified at the same price and not loose our butts, if the product will move. If it just sits here, that is not good. Then it will hurt bad.
My calculations depend on a pallet of material for at least 500 tops. SO for sure, Considerable outlay of expense! A few Thousand bucks. So I am putting feelers out there. Is there interest in this group? If you don't want to answer publicly, you could email me. Brent@AlaskaWoods.com..
As always, "Woods For the Worlds Music - In Harmony with the Land"
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
3 samples. All of it looks like chocolate colored western red cedar.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
Where's that wolf whistle emoji?
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
Colin, I don't know what a wolf whistle emoji is. But I can tell ya for certain, there are WAY too Many wolves on Prince Of Wales Island now. Outside interests convinced the State Fish and Game to limit wolf harvest to trappers, to something like 28 animals per yr. When it should be about 300. One does not "hunt" Wolves In SE Alaska rainforest. They have 2 litters per yr. And now we have wolves coming into town and all over the place, and the Deer population has suffered GREATLY. And therefore our ability for subsistence of red meat protein.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
The process of cooking reduces the weight, But it is all over the place.. A range of 6-14 % Crazy! The greatest decrease of over 14% was in a set with considerable hard grain and compression, and therefore the highest density. The lowest density material I sent was one of out ultra light sets and the change was 8%.. I mainly wanted to see how the color was effected on the ultra light set..
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
You can send some of those wolves to Virginia. The deer population is out of control here.

There are a couple more outfits selling T-Sitka that I have come across. I have no experience with T-wood except that I am almost finished with two now using T-Red Spruce that I got from Stew Mac. It's old growth Red Spruce and exceptional in every way. Beautiful stuff that under shellac comes out a golden/orange color. It's hard to tell in pics like the one above on the Internet. But this stuff was very amber looking and more so under a finish.

I'll know more when I string these guitars up whether I actually can determine that T-wood is better, worse, makes no differences, or is simply just different. But it's interesting stuff for sure. Very different then non modified wood in it's feel and other properties. At this point though in my mind T-wood is more a marketing thing. I mean after all how many tens of thousands of small shop luthier built guitars built with standard top wood sound incredible? Most of them. My guess is that T-wood just makes a different sounding guitar not necessarily a better one so that goes into the marketing department.

I don't build a lot of guitars, maybe 4-6 per year, so I'm not your target customer but having said that I'm sure the next tiem I ordered something from ASW I'd probably throw a set or two of T-Sitka in for the heck of it.
Author:  Marcus [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
I am very interested. Depending on the results (in my shop) I may be interested in a couple, maybe a couple dozen on down the line. Love the color and I am starting to love sitka a lot more.
Author:  mountain whimsy [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
I only build a few a year, but I'd probably put a couple of torrified tops in my next order.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
John, and everyone else. An FYI. Everyone of you is a target customer. There is no such thing of a "not target customer".. well unless there is just no pleasing the customer :-) . Yes, those customers that purchase a lot of product are GREAT, and we have a number of manufactures that purchase pallets of product, But It's the Thousands Onesy-Twosy, or half dozen/dozen product purchases from hobbiests and tiny/small shops all over the world, that has carried ASW through rough times like 2007-2010 & 2014-2018. And of coarse the many yrs before, from startup - 2011, when we used to attend luthier shows of GAL and ASIA
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
I just had an idea, that some of you may be interested in, for your own experimentation. The 16 sets I just had cooked, I can offer them as sets one cooked one not cooked. They are all sequentially cut sets. As in 2 of this, and 2 of that, etc., For a TOTAL OF 8 double sets. I don't know if I can actually sell them here. But I spose I can post pics.. The listing with higher resolution photos can be in our online store. I'll give you guys and our Facebook page followers first dibs.
Author:  doncaparker [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
I might dip a cautious toe in the tempting waters of torrified wood if you are selling it, Brent. Let me know when they are up on the website (and where to look, because you guys have a lot of options available).
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
We sure do have a lot. Some folks probably like that, and some folks maybe not too much. I have a hard time deciding which jar of pickles to grab at the grocery store if there are more than 2. But we are just soundboard people. And there are so many sizes of instruments. as we dissect old growth log, ya can't just throw high grade wood away, just because it doesn't work for a jumbo or dreadnought guitar top. And there are just sooooo many characteristics that we see. I liken it to, a stadium full of 40,000 people, of all shapes and colors. blue eyes- green eyes, brown hair red hair, tall and thin or short and stocky. and all the possible combinations.. Then try to put all those different combinations into 5 categories or sorts. Or even 18 sorts. That is usually how many sorts I have going on anytime I'm grading a batch of 800-1000 tops that just came down from the production floor. And that is after separating non-figured tops from bearclaw tops. Because those 2 will be on different carts or pallets. Anyway we try to make our online store for soundboard products easy to navigate, if someone knows at least what size/type and specie of instrument soundboard they are needing.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
That sounds very cool. I'd be into doing that. I once built two guitars from successive cuts from the same boards. The tops were Sitka and the back and sides were Walnut. All cut right in line from the same boards. I was trying to do an experiment to build two identical guitars. As us luthiers would suspect even though everything including the bracing, bridge design and so on was the same the guitars sounded different. But they still had similar features.

Anyway I think it would be another cool experiment to build two guitars identical again but one with a torrified top and one without. And I have some EIR backs that came from the same boards.

I already follow you all on Facebook so count me on on dibs.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
This afternoonI am getting right on thicknessing and trimming these 16 sets of cooked/un-cooked sets to all the same dimensions, and record the weights. The post these sets in our online store as 2 set- sets. The uncooked and cooked sequentially cut sets. Each priced per 2 set lot by grade and sort. They will be offered first come first serve basis when posted. I will let you guys know right when they are listed, as well as ANZLF and followers of ASW on Facebook.
Author:  DanSavage [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
I've re-topped about 16 guitars using torrefied wood. Personally, I'm no longer interested in using non-torrefied wood, so I'll have to bow out of buying the 2- set -set offering.

Once you've decided to offer single torrefied sets, I'll be ordering some.

Can you post photos of the torrefied stock wet with mineral spirits so we can get an idea of how the final product will look?
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
Dan, we will be able to do that.. The cooked products that we will eventually have qnty of, is several months out yet. Probably late fall at the earliest as a guess. Right now I am weighing options of kiln operators on the west coast and back east. Then Sometime between normal production, we will need to process a particular log, once identified as the best target, into billets, dry them to under 15% in our enhanced air drying insulated container. Which will take about 2 months for 2.5" thick billet. Then the turn around time of cooking and shipping both directions to and from Alaska of 2 months. Then for us to re-saw into product, finish sand and sort , then build product listings with photos.. Yep a lot to do. and several thousands of $$ to put out.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
I spose it's not often, if ever, someone building instruments has had opportunity to get a 2 set lot like these, of sequentially cut sets; one torrefied and one not, to do experimentation with. We already knew the reduction in weight/density. So Our experiment was most focused on the aesthetics and how color was effected by the cooking. If certain color variation was homogenized some, a lot or not at all. and how other attributes where effected. With our questions answered, someone else can take advantage to do some testing of their own.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
OK Luthier Friends, I have worked on this all afternoon.It’s now 8:30 PM and I have created the category and the 8 product listings. Each with description of dimension and weights both un-cooked and cooked and photo. The listings are set private for now to allow you customers with accounts setup already to have first crack. If your not a customer with an account, you can create one. Here is a link to the category. https://alaskawoods.com/product-categor ... -top-sets/
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
Cool, looking forward to this.
Author:  Marcus [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
great idea! I'm excited!
Author:  mountain whimsy [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
A pox be on ye who acquired the bearclaw set before me!

Should be fun to see what comes out of this. ASW - I really appreciate all the info you share with us on the forum. Amazing what goes into a top even before we start our shenanigans!

-T
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
All but the bearclaw set is cut right on VG as evidenced by the strong medularies across the boards. They are all good to great soundboards.. I would put the ultra light sets at the very top of Great Soundboard. Especially if finger style playing instrument is the target.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
Sorry folks.. I had the wrong picture loaded in set 2. It’s fixed now.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
It doesn’t surprise me too much that pretty sold before tone. Though all are/were good for tone, some definitely better than others. I conclude that this was a good thing to do, for us and customers. If anyone would like the 2 set- sets produced and offered again, we could do this. 8 set batches works well for us, and allows for use of the priority flat rate box to the cooker and back. But we can do multiples of 8 as well. Even 5 boxes, for 40 sets if need be. I would just need to go through our inventory of tops to select tops that are close to .200” thick so there is enough meat to clean up after the cooking. Just gotta let me know.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Torrified Sitka from salvaged Old Growth Timber
I just got a few sets in. It's pretty cool. Testing the panels for tap tone yields very different sounds for each sister panel. The torrified boards are much more lively with a notable ping followed by a nice gong shimmer. That's not to say that the standard boards are bad, they tap nicely too, but the two sisters are very different. One is a redhead the other a blonde.
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