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| Author: | phavriluk [ Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Martin titanium truss rods |
I'm curious about these. Does anyone have any information about their weight, as compared to the weight of the equivalent steel truss rod? Thanks! |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Martin's website - Quote: TITANIUM TRUSS ROD
One of the ultra-modern features that is new to this series is a two-way titanium truss rod, which makes the neck super easy to adjust, and it is 64% lighter than a traditional truss rod. |
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| Author: | phavriluk [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Colin, thanks very much! |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
I tried finding these rods on the internet-no luck. Does anyone know who sells them? |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
I've found them in UK if that helps, made in Korea, post worldwide - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Guitar-Truss-Rod-Lighter-and-stronger-than-standard-420-440-460-480/372681493407?var=641478000433&hash=item56c58c4b9f:m:mpCmSNTOvtTHZJBq3Gztx-Q |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Single acting here - https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KTS-TTR-446-Truss-Rod-For-Guitar-446mm-TITANIUM/391870716836?hash=item5b3d509ba4:g:sTEAAOSwpppcTExy |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
My friend stocks them here in Vancouver, 75USD for the two way... |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Colin North wrote: I've found them in UK if that helps, made in Korea, post worldwide - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Titanium-Guitar-Truss-Rod-Lighter-and-stronger-than-standard-420-440-460-480/372681493407?var=641478000433&hash=item56c58c4b9f:m:mpCmSNTOvtTHZJBq3Gztx-Q The 2 you show are not Martin style rods...... |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
meddlingfool wrote: My friend stocks them here in Vancouver, 75USD for the two way... Are they Martin style rods? Who is your friend? |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
PM sent... |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Titanium is lighter than steel but it also has lower tensile strength and it fairly brittle. I would not use them and definitely would not trust them if made in Korea. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Barry Daniels wrote: Titanium is lighter than steel but it also has lower tensile strength and it fairly brittle. I would not use them and definitely would not trust them if made in Korea. It's also about half as stiff as steel, but hey it sounds sexy. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Yep, it's mainly about marketing. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Barry Daniels wrote: Titanium is lighter than steel but it also has lower tensile strength and it fairly brittle. I would not use them and definitely would not trust them if made in Korea. Oh Rats! So I guess I'll stick with my $2 homemade single acting rods.... |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Barry Daniels wrote: Titanium is lighter than steel but it also has lower tensile strength and it fairly brittle. I would not use them and definitely would not trust them if made in Korea. I think that may be what some would call an alternative fact Wiki - Quote: Commercially pure (99.2% pure) grades of titanium have ultimate tensile strength of about 434 MPa (63,000 psi), equal to that of common, low-grade steel alloys, but are less dense. From http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-steel-and-titanium/ Steel's density is 7.85 g/cm3, and titanium has 56% that of steel. .. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Well, Mr. Alternative Facts, you are comparing pure grade titanium to low-grade steel. Apples and oranges there. A more fair comparison would be what is commercially available. Medium grade to medium grade, steel would come out the winner. Colin, you seem to relish trying to dis me. What's up with that? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
"Commercially pure (99.2% pure) grades of titanium have ultimate tensile strength of about 434 MPa (63,000 psi), equal to that of common, low-grade steel alloys, but are less dense." That is as good as the mild steel rods I use so that would not be a great a concern to me. Galling might be. I've read pulling parts together with bolts made from aluminium, stainless, and titanium is a bad idea because it can cause galling (cold welding) to occur. I think the operation of the truss rod is very similar to pulling parts together. Using a proper lubricant before adjustment might prevent this, but that isn't always done. My principal objection is the cost. If I was building "Maserati" guitars where the client doesn't mind the high cost and possible high rate of failure I would consider using them. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Colin North wrote: Martin's website - Quote: TITANIUM TRUSS ROD One of the ultra-modern features that is new to this series is a two-way titanium truss rod, which makes the neck super easy to adjust, and it is 64% lighter than a traditional truss rod. I weighed a conventional Martin two way truss rod I have and it weighed 4.9 oz. A 64% reduction in weight would mean the titanium truss rod weighs about 1.7 oz. A while ago, I weighed a completed mahogany neck (tuners not installed) and subtracted the weight of the truss rod in that one and it weighed 27 oz. Add the weight of a set of closed back tuners and that comes to about 33 oz so the titanium truss rod would have reduced the total weight of that neck by about 9 to 10%. I think a 10% weight reduction out on the headstock from using lighter tuners would probably be noticeable, but I wonder if the same reduction distributed along the length of the neck would be. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Having been on the receiving end of a weld break on a Chinese made LMI double action rod a number of years ago on a brand new guitar I will never take a chance on a “new” design truss rod unless it has a known track record. Having to remove a fretboard on a brand new neck, replace the rod and refinish was no fun. I’ll stick to my Blanchards. The current Martin design looks fine as well. I don’t know about current alloys but I know that early orthopedic titanium implants suffered from notch sensitivity in that a deep scratch or defect from the glancing blow of a drill bit created a stress riser that predisposed the area to fracture. Maybe that is not an issue with current Ti technology. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
J De Rocher wrote: Colin North wrote: Martin's website - Quote: TITANIUM TRUSS ROD One of the ultra-modern features that is new to this series is a two-way titanium truss rod, which makes the neck super easy to adjust, and it is 64% lighter than a traditional truss rod. I weighed a conventional Martin two way truss rod I have and it weighed 4.9 oz. A 64% reduction in weight would mean the titanium truss rod weighs about 1.7 oz. A while ago, I weighed a completed mahogany neck (tuners not installed) and subtracted the weight of the truss rod in that one and it weighed 27 oz. Add the weight of a set of closed back tuners and that comes to about 33 oz so the titanium truss rod would have reduced the total weight of that neck by about 9 to 10%. I think a 10% weight reduction out on the headstock from using lighter tuners would probably be noticeable, but I wonder if the same reduction distributed along the length of the neck would be. I never gave it much thought, but a two pound guitar neck is not unreasonable I guess. Some people talk about trying to build a 2 pound guitar. I may have built one close to that - a nylon string with a cedro neck, friction pegs and veneered over HPL (Alpi ligna). Titanium rods might be worth it to the "superleggera" guitar building crowd. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
Barry Daniels wrote: Well, Mr. Alternative Facts, you are comparing pure grade titanium to low-grade steel. Apples and oranges there. A more fair comparison would be what is commercially available. Medium grade to medium grade, steel would come out the winner. Colin, you seem to relish trying to dis me. What's up with that? Barry, I am in no way trying to dis you at all and am sorry you feel that way. it's just I like to check things out rather than accepting what people say verbatim. Being from an engineering background, and being really curious, I really like research and facts. Medium grade to medium grade, please point out my errors - - Lower grade titanium effectively is an alloy and in fact is stronger than the purer (and expensive) grades of titanium. Just as iron is less strong than steel. And titanium is more commonly used in alloys. 50 percent of total titanium usage the world over is Ti 6Al-4V and it is the most commenly used form of titanium. its tensiie strength is significanty higher than pure titanium, 880 MPa as opposed to 434 MPa |
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| Author: | rbuddy [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
I'm conscious of ounces of weight anywhere in an instrument, especially in the neck where I dislike being neck heavy. I've been using 3 pieces of CF in the neck shaft to stiffen and reduce stress in the wood but with no adjustment component. No problems so far but on higher end instruments I'd like some adjustment to be there just in case. I'd like an adjustable rod that was light and would pay for titanium if it were available and well made even if it cost more. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
I think it's an attractive prospect to have a lighter weight neck. I don't know anything about the truss rods but I have always had steel racing bicycles till one day I got a Ti one and the weight difference was tremendous. From what I understand it takes a very skilled welder to work with Ti so I would heed the advice given earlier in this thread and avoid cheap Chinese knock off's. I make my truss rods removable these days just in case. |
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| Author: | rbuddy [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
jfmckenna "...skilled welder to work with Ti" Playing around with metals occasionally I looked at welding Ti out of curiosity previously and it presents some real challenges. Some of the indicators of a low strength weld are color - like blue, straw, etc as opposed to a shiny silver bead and surrounding area. It looked to possibly be evident in the ebay pics I looked at unless it was camera flare or something else going on. Welds and brazes have always been the weak points in 2-way rods. When I've used them I try to build in a removal option too. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Martin titanium truss rods |
What about just buying some 3/16" round stock, threading one end, and bending the other to make an anchor? That's what I do with steel and it works fine. |
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