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| I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51847 |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
From my understanding it has wax in it. I seem to remember, and maybe Brian will chime in here, a video that Brian Howard did where he said he actually likes the wax in the shellac. Seems to make sense to me. Why take it out? It seems like it would make application a lot easier. I could definitely see using dewaxed shellac for a base coat for Nitro or any other finish though. Is there a downside to keeping wax in the shellac? This will be for an FP finish. Curious if anyone else has experience using button shellac, tips, advice... |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
I can’t watch it at the moment, but I think Brian talks about that here: http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015/ ... y.html?m=0 If you decide to dewax it, Tom Bills shows that in his course. Maybe someone has notes on it. I didn’t take any on that aspect since I was using flakes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
Dewaxing isn’t difficult but it does take time. It consists of coffee filters and pouring it through ... waiting on it to all drip into a container. It may take a few attempts to dewax From my understanding you use dewaxed because the wax will make the finish softer and cloudier than you’d want it. Later you’ll add fatty and then some walnut oil in the final coats. At least that’s what the Bills course has you do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | dpetrzelka [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
After watching Brian's video some time ago I decided to try Button Lac on the next one too. I've got it all mixed up, but haven't tried any text application yet. As I understood if from Brian, the button lac (with wax) actually makes a more durable finish, and you don't have to add any/as much oil during the process. Would love to hear more from those of you who go through a dewaxing process. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
I've use button shellac lately. You can crush the buttons and place them in a coffee filter which will retain alot of the wax but some will still get through. For dewaxing whether a coffee filter was used or not I find a little warmth really speeds it along. I mix the shellac in glass jar with a lid on it and place it in direct sunlight. Works a charm, I live at 7000 ft though. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
I like the wax, I use no oil because I leave the wax in. |
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| Author: | Carey [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
I've been using buttonlac a bit lately (Kusmi #1) and am really impressed by its toughness. I dewaxed mine through coffee filters after grinding it, which took awhile, so maybe I'll try Jim Watts's sunshine idea next time. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
As I understand it, the wax makes it more abrasion resistant but vulnerable to water. Not a good trade IMO, since then you have to worry about sweating on it. I use the lightest color dewaxed shellac, and it seems to be entirely waterproof. Although some people have alkaline sweat that will damage it regardless. But in that case, a different finish would be the better choice. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
I've also heard the opposite, that putting in the freezer will congeal the wax out and you can decant it. Funny I would have thought that leaving the wax in would make it even more water proof, kind of like why you wax your car. I've always made my shellac up from an article John Greven wrote in the 90's. Mix in a considerable amount of walnut oil in with the shellac. Not only does it become part of the finish but you don't need oil to aid in the process. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
All this complexity with shellac reminds me why I’m building a spray booth and shooting UV cured. Sorry, just had to flip the script on the folks who always seem to post that they FP in every spray finish thread.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
DennisK wrote: As I understand it, the wax makes it more abrasion resistant but vulnerable to water. Not a good trade IMO, since then you have to worry about sweating on it. I use the lightest color dewaxed shellac, and it seems to be entirely waterproof. Although some people have alkaline sweat that will damage it regardless. But in that case, a different finish would be the better choice. This is not true at all... The original reason the wax was removed was water damage , yes. But this happened at the time Cooled or iced beverages became available and the sweating from these glasses left marks. This was a new development and the furniture makers responded with dewaxing the finish or switching entirely to varnish. Removing wax solved some of the white ring problem in as far as the shellac no longer flaked off the surface after the water dried. Damage to clarity etc. still happens no matter wax or not. So if a bit of sweat is enough to ruin your FP finish you did not do it correctly...End of story! Your problem isn't wax but likely lack of amalgamation from lack of pressure during application. The process is dependent on final polymerization through pressure during application while the film is soft and malleable. Without sufficient pressure during application the film will never develop proper hardness or it's best water resistance whether it is waxed or dewaxed. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
bcombs510 wrote: All this complexity with shellac reminds me why I’m building a spray booth and shooting UV cured. Sorry, just had to flip the script on the folks who always seem to post that they FP in every spray finish thread. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro LOL as they say... touché. --- So as long as I tell my clients that they shouldn't leave an ice cold beer on their guitar top is sounds like it will be okay I put in a sound port for a guy a while back on one of his guitars and later on he was just dying to show me how awesome a cup holder it was LOL. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
"All this complexity with shellac reminds me why I’m building a spray booth and shooting UV cured." Somehow I think you are headed in the wrong direction from a "complexity" point of view. Although labor intensive, rubbing on beetle excretions is one of the simplest methods of finishing with generally the least amount of paraphernalia required. Admittedly, I spray nitro because it is less labor intensive and one of the easiest finishes to apply. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I'm gonna try button shellac this time and... |
Sorry, Clay. I was just being a PITA there. 
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