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In the past 2 weeks I had 3 220v and 1 50 amp oulet put in our 1200 sq ft shop . and another seperate 30 amp 220 v line in our 3 car garage. I called HD an Lowes to get an estimate We need both good heating in winter, and cooling with high temps and humidity in the summer. What are the best alternatives out there ?. This is a subject I know nothing about , so asking for your help and opinions , and what you
folks have done that works.. Thanks in advance as always ernie

A mini split system is the thing to get these days. Basically, it has the compressor outside like a regular forced air system, but the tubing goes to a blower and control box that is all self contained and lives in the room to be treated, high up on an exterior wall. They control both heat and air conditioning. The good ones can also help control relative humidity. They are pricey, but apparently worth it. I don't have one, but I did some research when we were thinking about selling/buying a different house, which would have necessitated setting up a shop elsewhere.

I have a mini split AC/Heat pump in my shop, much smaller than yours, and it works just fine. They do come in different sizes, and in a situation like yours, you might want one with two wall mount units instead of one, too get better air distribution. Some of them have both vertical and horizontal air motion systems that distribute the air better. More gadgets, more chance for failure though. There are also systems with ceiling mounted inside systems, just depends on which one you buy. The down side to Mini Splits, though is that they are a b***h to repair if there is a failure, particularly on the interior units. There is a lot of stuff packed inside a very small package. They are more like watches than AC systems in the way they are built. Not much space to put hands and tools in there. They are only cheaper because you don't have to run ducts in a finished space.

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Waddy

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I had to go with forced hot air as my situation runs a lot of dust. So be sure a good dust filtration system to help avoid blocking the air exchange fins. I like those split systems but for me I can't use them in my shop.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
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You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I love my minisplit and wish they still made them this way. Basically it was a DIY mini split system that came delivered with pre-charged lines and a proprietary connection system that required no special HVAC tools or installers all for $1400 bucks. It's been running for 5 winters now. But anyway in the end it's a minisplit system and it works great. This one does have a dust filter that catches at least some of the bigger stuff but I imagine the .3micron level dust would just pass through anyway.

When it gets down to 0 or sub zero I need to help it out with a room heater. But that only happens a few nights a year here in Virginia. So if you have extreme cold a Mini is probably not for you.

I have a mini-split in my 3-car garage in Southern Cal. It works pretty well, but certain struggles to keep up when the heat gets into the 90s in the summer and I've got all the lights on and some big power tools running. I may get a second unit at some point.

Obviously, the most important thing is to ensure your shop is well-insulated and that you have well-insulated and well-sealed garage doors. Upgrading my garage doors to some of the latest, greatest highly-insulated doors made a bigger difference for climate control in my shop than anything else I have done.

Be aware that the mini-split systems have a relatively small filter, and the dust in a woodshop can wreak havoc. Make sure you clean the filters very regularly.

Do any of you have links to the mini split system . ? I have no idea what it is, or how it operates The mini split would probably work in the 3 car garage TNX ! Any suggestions on prices or models for the garage shop ? Just checked the mini split many brands to choose from . The weather here i n s . central ok hot and humid summers in the 90 .s an cold an damp winters , and at our location humid down to the teens from dec to mar

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Thank You and Best To All

I looked into mini splits for my attached garage workshop. The estimator recommended a Mitsubishi Hyper Heat unit:
https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/benefits/hyper-heating
The install required running an electrical line for a subpanel in the garage. The quoted price was on the exorbitant side: about $7500. I think this was more of the "I don't want to fool with this but if you are willing to pay me $7500 I guess I will" price. The unit itself was under $2K. I declined the bid and went with one of these for heat:
https://cadetheat.com/RCP
It works well for my well-insulated 300 sq ft shop. Cooling in Michigan in the summer is not such a big deal and so far I've been able to do without a/c.
I was a little concerned with sawdust clogging up the mini split, however. I am careful with dust collection but you can never get it all.

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Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions . just had airco a contract co from lowes come over for an estimate . Heading out to HD , Our main shop is large 1200 sq ft with a high 12 ft ceiling . it might be a challenge to find the right heat and air source !!

My current shop is 24x50 but I only have 24x37 of it finished off and climate controlled. Since the main structure was already there, basically a four stall, stick built garage with 200 amp service and cement floor I didn't have the option of going with radiant heat in the floor. In our area here in northern Indiana/southern Michigan, the current trend for shops seems to be the in floor radiant and I am planning to use that in my new shop. For the old shop, I have 12 foot interior ceilings and I went with a ceiling mount, gas fired tube radiant heat from Space Ray. The flame is inclosed in the tube and there are no fans blowing air and dust around the shop. They work best to just set at a comfortable temp (70° for me) and leave them. They work on natural gas or propane and only require a 110 circuit for the thermostat and the exhaust fan. I found it to be quite economical in my shop. We also used a pair of them in my much larger auto body shop in the past. For cooling in my current shop, I used a simple window air conditioner. That obviously required maintaining a filter quite often and putting up with the noise.

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jw ( o)===:::

Thanks joe for your ideas . We have no gas in our new house . Just a heat pump/ac. Propane is super expensive here in okie dokie, oddly the back of my property has a gas right away through the subdivision.All the houses here are brand new and all electric. I might find a used system . People are always replacing their systems. Used ones should be available. Thank you for your input Joe.

Ernie, Tony Vines recently moved into his new shop in Tennessee and he went with the heat pump system. Might be worth reaching out to him for some advice too.

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jw ( o)===:::

Another consideration, since you are starting from scratch, rather than retrofitting:

The humidifiers and de-humidifiers that tie into your HVAC system work better than the floor units, in general. They are more expensive up front, but they are less hassle overall. Not all woodworking shops treat RH control as a necessity, but guitar makers really need to. Since you are starting from no system at all, you might as well buy a system that addresses RH as well as heating and cooling.

As far as a regular forced air system versus a mini split, I would do whichever gives you what you need for the right price. With the regular system, you need duct work, but in a workshop, that can simply stay exposed. Not a big deal, if a regular system is something you can get a better price on.

I heat my whole house with a Mitsubishi mini split. It works great, is quiet and extremely cheap to run. Mine doesn't have resistance heat, but even down to zero here in the North Carolina mountains, the mini split just keeps on putting out hot air. I have propane as a backup, but so far I haven't needed it.

One thing to consider is that the mini split doesn't dehumidify as much as a forced air system does. In my shop, during the Summer, my dehumidifier runs practically all the time. That said, my shop is not very air tight.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Thanks everyone . Really appreciate the input /advice . Joe white does mr vines have a pm . ?? You can pm his details Thank you.

Ernie, I don't believe that Tony is a member of the OLF. I think it would be easy enough to contact him through his Web site.

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jw ( o)===:::

FYI . I tried contacting tony , joe , and have not heard from him . I got the estimate from a commercial supplier and they have 4 systems from 9k to 16 K , had to pass on that. !!

A large reverse cycle AC unit (that also functions as a heat pump) might offer an economical "plug and play" solution for a shop environment. Augmented by a couple of oil filled electric space heaters for particularly cold days a large unit (or two smaller ones ) may be all you would need.

I can certainly understand that Ernie. Not sure why Tony wouldn't reply. He may be on a tour though since he also performs to promote his music.

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jw ( o)===:::

Thanks Joe for your help . . Since we are on a senior budget . and currently paying 2 mortgages. am going to start looking at CL and FB to find a used system. Winters are short here only 3 mo long, So a system that heats and cools is definitely in order .