| Official Luthiers Forum! http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Alternate spruces... http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51674 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alternate spruces... |
Looking to try something outside the regular Sitka/lutz/Adi train. Wondering if carpathian/German/Swiss/Italian/alpine etc. are worth the extra moolah or are really that bnoticeable different than my three standbys... I guess this is tangential to the moon spruce thread, just looking to spice up my shop life, ya know? |
|
| Author: | jfmckenna [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
Check out Eurotonewood for good pricing on Carpathian. Keep in mind,IMHO, their master grade is more like what I would call 3a but generally I've been getting good supply from them. |
|
| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
If you are looking to "spice" things up try finding some American sassafras. Sometimes you can find some with a bit of curl. It is a little heavier and harder than red spruce, but not that far out. The lumber is moderately priced and fairly easy to resaw. You might start a trend. 
|
|
| Author: | jfmckenna [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
I've been wanting to try Paulonia for some time now too. |
|
| Author: | bcombs510 [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
jfmckenna wrote: I've been wanting to try Paulonia for some time now too. I use it for solid linings per Burton’s recommendation. It’s crazy light, like balsa wood but a little stiffer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
| Author: | J De Rocher [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
jfmckenna wrote: Check out Eurotonewood for good pricing on Carpathian. Keep in mind,IMHO, their master grade is more like what I would call 3a but generally I've been getting good supply from them. +1 for Eurotonewood |
|
| Author: | jshelton [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
I remember reading years ago that someone taking a tour of a "German spruce" warehouse in Germany noticed the billets were stamped "Weyerhauser". |
|
| Author: | Michaeldc [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
jshelton wrote: I remember reading years ago that someone taking a tour of a "German spruce" warehouse in Germany noticed the billets were stamped "Weyerhauser". I remember Ervin telling us a story suggesting that much of the German spruce coming to North America was actually Englemann from North America. Who knows? Are there ways to test spruce besides having it spit into a vial and sending it in with a hundred bucks? M |
|
| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
In terms of the measurable properties, as far as I can tell when you control for density spruce is spruce. Different species of spruce tend to have somewhat different average densities when you look at a lot of samples, but there's also a lot of variation, and plenty of overlap. I've never been able to make 'identical' guitars using 'the same' wood, no matter how tightly I try to control things. If I made two guitars using, say, Sitka spruce and one of the more 'exotic' ones, and the measurable properties of the wood were the same, would they sound more different than two guitars made from 'the same' wood? I don't think so. |
|
| Author: | mike-p [ Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
I've bought low grade tops from rudi Fuchs at Germanspruce.com lovely man to deal with I was very impressed with the wood although I'm not vastly experienced. He provides altitude and density information from the log from which each top was cut like this Log ID No. K2 Austrian Alps Spruce from a tree/log out of the Austrian Alps, 1300m - 1400m above Sea level.Felled in winter 2010/11. Tops are 100 percent air seasoned!Wood measured by an outdoor temperature of 20 °C and a air humidity of 55 percent. Average gravity, 0.397 gr./cm3 *. Longitudinal speed of sound, 5124 m/sec. **. Average ring spacing, 14,4 rings per inch. -All Measurements refer to the average values from two selected Master Grade tops from the current Log ID. Deviations are possible! * = by a wood moisture of 10,0 percent (air seasoned) ** = According to the Soundspeed calculation by Matthias Dammann The bracewood he sent me was also perfectly straight a nd a dream to carve. I suppose it's a shame he doesn't include which phase of the moon the tree was felled at... |
|
| Author: | klooker [ Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
Anyone know what's up with Old World Tonewood Company, www.oldworldtonewood.com ? He's not listing any guitar sets. Didn't know if he's not offering or just out of stock. I have dealt with him the past & he's great to work with but I haven't built with the sets yet. Kevin Looker |
|
| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
I have bought quite a few sets of carpathian spruce , it/s good . a wide grain type of spruce coming from the carpathian mts of Romania. There is also a type of black spruce that comes from quebec , never used it, and dont know how useful it is for luthiers |
|
| Author: | bcombs510 [ Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Alternate spruces... |
klooker wrote: Anyone know what's up with Old World Tonewood Company, http://www.oldworldtonewood.com ? He's not listing any guitar sets. Didn't know if he's not offering or just out of stock. I have dealt with him the past & he's great to work with but I haven't built with the sets yet. Kevin Looker He sold it to American Tonewood www.Americantonewood.com I have some “Appalachian” builds in progress using tops from them. It’s the same stock that Old World had. Brad Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
bcombs510 wrote: klooker wrote: Anyone know what's up with Old World Tonewood Company, http://www.oldworldtonewood.com ? He's not listing any guitar sets. Didn't know if he's not offering or just out of stock. I have dealt with him the past & he's great to work with but I haven't built with the sets yet. Kevin Looker He sold it to American Tonewood http://www.Americantonewood.com I have some “Appalachian” builds in progress using tops from them. It’s the same stock that Old World had. Brad Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro John is really a violin/cello guy. Probably why he got out of the guitar wood business. |
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
Englemann. Like most excellent Canadian Spruces....... it's practically free. |
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
The only problem with engelmann is that it's engelmann... 
|
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
meddlingfool wrote: The only problem with engelmann is that it's engelmann... I did an Engelmann Bearclaw/Myrtle parlour last year that I was very pleased with. If my bad memory serves me correct I was chatting with a fairly high end builder, who only does one model. His best results are Engelmann/Myrtle. I personally don't care for the white bread appearance. But give me a nice set of Carpathian that looks identical, well that's a different story. 
|
|
| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
Several years ago I ordered some Engelmann spruce from on of the suppliers. I asked them to send me some low density stock, for use on Classical guitars. What they sent was several thin slices of wood that could well have been Red spruce: the look was more like Red, and if it's Engelmann, it's by far the densest I've ever run into. Some time later somebody on one of these groups said that he had had conversations about top designation and grading with folks from one of the suppliers. Apparently there are times when shipments of spruce get mixed up, so they don't know exactly what they are. Even an expert with a microscope can have trouble distinguishing the different species simply from the wood. In that case they simply make a guess, based on what it looks like. I'm pretty sure that those dense tops I got were actually Red spruce, and very good quality, but they charged me for Engelmann, and labeled them as such. In any case, they were 'way too dense for Classicals, and got used for other things. I can't swear that this story is true, of course, and I imagine the supplier would deny it, but it's not unbelievable. As for German suppliers selling American wood; keep in mind that they advertise their wares as 'tone wood'. Just because it comes from a German supplier doesn't mean it was grown there. |
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
I shouldn't bash engelmann, I know it's the right tool for the job, sometimes. I just generally prefer a guitar that can take a bit heavier of a hand... |
|
| Author: | DannyV [ Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
meddlingfool wrote: I shouldn't bash engelmann, I know it's the right tool for the job, sometimes. I just generally prefer a guitar that can take a bit heavier of a hand... Likewise. It has it's place. Just curious Ed. Are you a heavier handed player? I am
|
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
Yep. Or was when I actually played guitar. I don't these days. |
|
| Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
Want something a bit different that sounds very good? Try Douglas (Red) fir. Has a wonderful aged reddish color naturally and a strong clear voice with great tonal separation. May be building a Classical with it for a client later this year. |
|
| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
Interesting thought... |
|
| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
'Headroom' seems to be a function of the density of the top wood, rather than the species. Engelmann does tend to be low density, and make a light top that doesn't have as much headroom, but there's a lot of variation in all spruces. A dense piece of Engelmann makes a top you can lean on, and a low density piece of Sitka can make as 'responsive' a guitar as you could want. |
|
| Author: | Carey [ Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternate spruces... |
I'd like to find some low density Sitka, because Sitka-in-general has some qualities I like, but so far have not found any of the stuff. |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|