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Moon Spruce...Hype or...? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51650 |
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Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
Got a build coming in from a repeat client looking for something a bit different. I was toying with carpathian or Swiss moon spruce, and wondering if anyone has any hands on experience. I'm inclined to think of 'moon spruce' as lovely marketing, but am open to the idea of it having merit. Any thoughts? |
Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I've always thought of it as marketing but I am open to scientific proofs otherwise. |
Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
It is possible the people providing "moon" spruce are producing a superior product - not because it was cut during some phase of the moon, but because they pick and cut good trees. I try to ignore the hype and look at the wood. You may remember some years back there was a supplier who named the individual trees he harvested with some pretty fanciful names. Some people loved the wood and some were put off by the hype. The few pieces I got from him seemed O.K., like most of the spruce I've bought from others. Some things make sense - harvesting in the winter when the sap is down and the way the wood is processed. Other things less so. I always try to judge the end result. P.S. Santa Cruz appears to be using it to sell a few more guitars. |
Author: | Jim Watts [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I have built with Moon Spruce and excellent Carpathian. I wouldn't of known which one was "moon wood" if I wasn't told. And I measure the physical properties of all my tops! That said I wouldn't hesitate to use "moon wood" it was excellent. |
Author: | Joe Beaver [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I agree with the responses above, but.... Recalling the thread regarding blind test of guitars and how their was no significantly documented ability of humans to identify which guitar was which by sound alone. But if they could see and feel the guitar and they knew the virtue of the various woods and quality of build, then they felt they could tell a difference in sound. So... if your customer thinks the wood is superior, then he is likely to always believe it is a superior sounding instrument no matter how the top comes in on any kind of real measurement. |
Author: | bluescreek [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
magic marketing more hype than fact |
Author: | Rod True [ Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I’ve got some Irish Rover spruce for ya.... but I left it with my unicorn and can’t seem to find it... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Author: | Mark Mc [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
Yes, it must be more wonderful and musical if it involves unicorns, or swiss virginal nuns harvesting the spruce at a special time of the month...... I have looked at the videos, and some of the wood. It is nice spruce. Like many other types of nice spruce. But after growing for 250 years do you really think it makes a difference if you chop the tree down on the first tuesday of the month, or the third thursday? |
Author: | Colin North [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
meddlingfool wrote: Got a build coming in from a repeat client looking for something a bit different. I was toying with carpathian or Swiss moon spruce, and wondering if anyone has any hands on experience. I'm inclined to think of 'moon spruce' as lovely marketing, but am open to the idea of it having merit. Any thoughts? Using wood cut according to "tradition" can't hurt. I built with several (low grade) German MoonSpruce tops early in my efforts and didn't have any complaints. |
Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
It's a joke started by Symogi... He has a strange sense of humor and enjoys watching people chase nonsense.... |
Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:28 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I/ve heard of moon spruce. but it seems far fetched to me . Do have a lot of carpathian spruce though from a usa vendor |
Author: | DannyV [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:37 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
There's a lot of smoke and mirrors in the industry. As long as clients are willing to pay for such, Moon Spruce is amazing! And as Jim said, it's nice Carpathian. |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
Lots of folks consider torrefied wood to be hype as well, but, having made about 20 guitars with torrefied tops, it is definitely different than non torrefied wood. The metrics don't change much, aside from across the grain width as it definitely shrinks, but it's tonal response and characteristics are completely changed, in a consistent and predictable, and therefore useful way. Hence why I'm open minded towards the idea of moon spruce. If it really is cut down with a lower sap content in the wood, it's just plausible enough that there could be a perceptible, and consistent difference between moon spruce and non of the same species. Worth an ask anyway... |
Author: | Rod True [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
Michael Greenfield works with moon spruce quite a bit... That's a pretty big name builder to piggy back off. |
Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
Moon Spruce, caveat emptor |
Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
The majority of the sap is in the new wood, not the mature wood where the tops come from. |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
^ most interesting! |
Author: | Alan Carruth [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
Anyway, wood in a living tree is always at the fiber saturation moisture content, whether the sap is flowing or not. I can't see how the phase of the moon can make any difference. |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I need to learn more about trees... |
Author: | Jim Watts [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
"the thing is . . . you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear - dig " Harry Nilsson -The Point |
Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I so want it to be true... ![]() https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Erx3dG ... e=youtu.be This is the link from the Santa Cruz site. |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I don't argue that moon spruce couldn't be good wood, I just question whether the moon had anything to do with it... |
Author: | TRein [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
It is quite common in the tropics to cut wood by the phases of the moon. Insect activity is greatest during the period around the full moon and freshly felled trees in this phase will be more subject to damage from boring insects. In temperate Switzerland this is not a big factor. But, since I have never felled a Swiss spruce tree and processed it I'm willing to defer to those foresters who have. I doubt whether these sawyers suddenly thought up the concept of cutting softwood relative to moon phases. Extracting a living from the forest has been going on for a long time in Switzerland and I'm fairly certain some of the knowledge has been passed down. The moon spruce I have received from Florinett has been excellent. They are experts in processing the trees, cut on a sustainable rotation, and price their wood fairly. Not sure how relevant it is to reduce the concept of moon spruce to a binary "yay or nay". |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
No one doubts the quality of Florinet's wood, as far as I can tell. That name only came up due to the SCGC vid. Many other sell moon spruce. I would like to know if there is any measurable data between moon and non moon spruce of the same type from the same area. Moon spruce may very well be good wood for reasons completely unrelated to the moon. Just doing things cause it's tradition doesn't mean much to me as far as the utility of the tradition. TRein, have you noticed that the moon spruce you've received has been particularly better than other excellent wood you've received? Does it stand out as 'the best'? |
Author: | Jim Watts [ Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Moon Spruce...Hype or...? |
I wasn't able to measure any difference. It fell within the bounds of what I would consider excellent tone wood. I don't remember exact numbers as this was 10+ years ago. But I have considered reordering just because it was good wood. |
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