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Got a build coming in from a repeat client looking for something a bit different.

I was toying with carpathian or Swiss moon spruce, and wondering if anyone has any hands on experience. I'm inclined to think of 'moon spruce' as lovely marketing, but am open to the idea of it having merit.

Any thoughts?

I've always thought of it as marketing but I am open to scientific proofs otherwise.

It is possible the people providing "moon" spruce are producing a superior product - not because it was cut during some phase of the moon, but because they pick and cut good trees. I try to ignore the hype and look at the wood. You may remember some years back there was a supplier who named the individual trees he harvested with some pretty fanciful names. Some people loved the wood and some were put off by the hype. The few pieces I got from him seemed O.K., like most of the spruce I've bought from others.
Some things make sense - harvesting in the winter when the sap is down and the way the wood is processed. Other things less so. I always try to judge the end result.

P.S. Santa Cruz appears to be using it to sell a few more guitars.

I have built with Moon Spruce and excellent Carpathian. I wouldn't of known which one was "moon wood" if I wasn't told. And I measure the physical properties of all my tops! That said I wouldn't hesitate to use "moon wood" it was excellent.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

I agree with the responses above, but....

Recalling the thread regarding blind test of guitars and how their was no significantly documented ability of humans to identify which guitar was which by sound alone. But if they could see and feel the guitar and they knew the virtue of the various woods and quality of build, then they felt they could tell a difference in sound.

So... if your customer thinks the wood is superior, then he is likely to always believe it is a superior sounding instrument no matter how the top comes in on any kind of real measurement.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

magic marketing
more hype than fact

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I’ve got some Irish Rover spruce for ya.... but I left it with my unicorn and can’t seem to find it...


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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Yes, it must be more wonderful and musical if it involves unicorns, or swiss virginal nuns harvesting the spruce at a special time of the month......
I have looked at the videos, and some of the wood. It is nice spruce. Like many other types of nice spruce. But after growing for 250 years do you really think it makes a difference if you chop the tree down on the first tuesday of the month, or the third thursday?

Using wood cut according to "tradition" can't hurt.
I built with several (low grade) German MoonSpruce tops early in my efforts and didn't have any complaints.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

It's a joke started by Symogi... He has a strange sense of humor and enjoys watching people chase nonsense....

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

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I/ve heard of moon spruce. but it seems far fetched to me . Do have a lot of carpathian spruce though from a usa vendor

There's a lot of smoke and mirrors in the industry. As long as clients are willing to pay for such, Moon Spruce is amazing! And as Jim said, it's nice Carpathian.

Lots of folks consider torrefied wood to be hype as well, but, having made about 20 guitars with torrefied tops, it is definitely different than non torrefied wood. The metrics don't change much, aside from across the grain width as it definitely shrinks, but it's tonal response and characteristics are completely changed, in a consistent and predictable, and therefore useful way.

Hence why I'm open minded towards the idea of moon spruce. If it really is cut down with a lower sap content in the wood, it's just plausible enough that there could be a perceptible, and consistent difference between moon spruce and non of the same species.

Worth an ask anyway...

Michael Greenfield works with moon spruce quite a bit... That's a pretty big name builder to piggy back off.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Moon Spruce, caveat emptor

The majority of the sap is in the new wood, not the mature wood where the tops come from.

^ most interesting!

Anyway, wood in a living tree is always at the fiber saturation moisture content, whether the sap is flowing or not. I can't see how the phase of the moon can make any difference.

I need to learn more about trees...

"the thing is . . .
you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear - dig " Harry Nilsson -The Point

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

I so want it to be true... I never heard of this until this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Erx3dG ... e=youtu.be

This is the link from the Santa Cruz site.

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I don't argue that moon spruce couldn't be good wood, I just question whether the moon had anything to do with it...

It is quite common in the tropics to cut wood by the phases of the moon. Insect activity is greatest during the period around the full moon and freshly felled trees in this phase will be more subject to damage from boring insects. In temperate Switzerland this is not a big factor. But, since I have never felled a Swiss spruce tree and processed it I'm willing to defer to those foresters who have. I doubt whether these sawyers suddenly thought up the concept of cutting softwood relative to moon phases. Extracting a living from the forest has been going on for a long time in Switzerland and I'm fairly certain some of the knowledge has been passed down. The moon spruce I have received from Florinett has been excellent. They are experts in processing the trees, cut on a sustainable rotation, and price their wood fairly. Not sure how relevant it is to reduce the concept of moon spruce to a binary "yay or nay".

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Stay with the happy people.
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No one doubts the quality of Florinet's wood, as far as I can tell. That name only came up due to the SCGC vid. Many other sell moon spruce.

I would like to know if there is any measurable data between moon and non moon spruce of the same type from the same area. Moon spruce may very well be good wood for reasons completely unrelated to the moon. Just doing things cause it's tradition doesn't mean much to me as far as the utility of the tradition.

TRein, have you noticed that the moon spruce you've received has been particularly better than other excellent wood you've received? Does it stand out as 'the best'?

I wasn't able to measure any difference. It fell within the bounds of what I would consider excellent tone wood. I don't remember exact numbers as this was 10+ years ago. But I have considered reordering just because it was good wood.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com