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| Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51612 |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
I use an integrated head block ala Somagyi. I'm about to order some more rods but I've been thinking about using a bass sized length rod and running it right up to the UTB in the integrated head block. I would fit the next and then hand cut the channel extensions into upper Bout/head block. Just wanted to get some thoughts and opinions on this before ordering and moving forward. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
what problem are you trying to solve? |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
Jim Watts wrote: what problem are you trying to solve? I think I have it figured out, just wondering if the extra effort is overkill? Or possibly any potential problems that I haven't considered? The thought is that it will act as a bit of insurance to avoid the ski jump where the neck meets the body. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
The only thing I'd worry about is some future luthier's saw being destroyed when they run into those carbon bars trying to convert it to a bolt-on  Try to design with heel slip reset in mind. I generally don't do back binding, and use hide glue, and easily repaired shellac finish. |
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| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
IMHO I/ve bought into the carbon Fiber adding more strength, into the neck about 15 hyrs ago. Now it seems to really add very little imho , and I dont think its worth adding to a neck . Prefer what the traditional spanish luthiers do, which is add a piece of ebony to the neck. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
Why would you copy Somogyi's neck joint design? That aspect is a dinosaur. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
Barry Daniels wrote: Why would you copy Somogyi's neck joint design? That aspect is a dinosaur. I suppose I am unaware of a better alternative. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
Ernie Kleinman wrote: IMHO I/ve bought into the carbon Fiber adding more strength, into the neck about 15 hyrs ago. Now it seems to really add very little imho , and I dont think its worth adding to a neck . Prefer what the traditional spanish luthiers do, which is add a piece of ebony to the neck. If I am reading this correctly ebony is more stiff than carbon fiber? I've never done any testing but if that's the case you'll have saved me about $160.00. Surely the CF is lighter but I'm more concerned with stiffness. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
For its weight and volume, carbon fiber is both stronger and lighter than wood. It is also much more resistant to taking a 'set' under stress than wood. I use to use it in my SS necks along with a truss rod. I came to the conclusion that it was overkill. I also found that it made adjusting a truss rod, to change a neck set, difficult to the point that I was afraid I was over torquing the truss rod, so I don't use them on SS's anymore. But I do use them on classical necks. Another but is I don't know anything about the Somogyi neck joint, and don't know if you are talking SS or classical so please factor that in to the above response. One quick note: On a classical with carbon fiber I like to cut the CF channels (I use 2) slightly deep. Then I bow the neck slightly by clamping it with a block of wood in the center and planing it flat. Once it is removed from the clamps it will have just a little relief. Then I epoxy in the CF locking the relief in for all time. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
Joe Beaver wrote: For its weight and volume, carbon fiber is both stronger and lighter than wood. It is also much more resistant to taking a 'set' under stress than wood. I use to use it in my SS necks along with a truss rod. I came to the conclusion that it was overkill. I also found that it made adjusting a truss rod, to change a neck set, difficult to the point that I was afraid I was over torquing the truss rod, so I don't use them on SS's anymore. But I do use them on classical necks. Another but is I don't know anything about the Somogyi neck joint, and don't know if you are talking SS or classical so please factor that in to the above response. At the moment I've only built SS guitars. This is an interesting conversation though as I've never had a teacher and there seem to be so many different opinions on the matter in regard to SS guitars. Recently I've become a member of The Luthier's Edge with Tom Bills and I've read through Somagyi's book several times. Both of them use CF but many here have stated the same as you as far as overkill. I suppose at this point the prudent thing to do would be build a couple of each to figure out what will work for me. I do like the idea of the most stiff neck that I can build which is what drew me to the idea in the first place. If I do find that I agree that it's too stiff it would be nice to have some sort of compromise by maybe reducing the height of the rod to X% where it still stiffens the neck but the truss rod doesn't become unusable. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
Very logical Joey. That would be a good approach. If I was to do another SS with CF I would consider doing it pretty much do it like my classical. By that I mean plane a little relief into the neck before gluing in the CF. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
Joe Beaver wrote: Very logical Joey. That would be a good approach. If I was to do another SS with CF I would consider doing it pretty much do it like my classical. By that I mean plane a little relief into the neck before gluing in the CF. How much relief? This is what Tom Bills does but it's literally a couple thousandths if I recall correctly. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
That sounds about right. I put enough in so that a piece of 24 lb print paper will slide under my straight edge. Edit: You do want to be able to snug up the truss rod. Otherwise it will be prone to vibrate. |
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| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carbon Fiber neck reinforcement |
CF particularly in a uke or CL is more than needed . As for the thin strip of ebony it serves 2 purposes 1 aesthetic breaking up IMHO the look of red mahogany and adding stiffness to the neck , particularly with a softer spanish cedar |
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