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| ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51606 |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
Thanks for all the feedback on the ELEVATE Dot Locator. I've heard you and am now working on a way to make a set of interchangeable drill guides. So 2 questions: 1) What sizes are you most interested in for face dot inlays? (Stew Mac sells 4-8mm) 2) The jig is currently under $100 with a 1/4" bushing. An interchangeable version will likely cost $200 or more. Is it worth that to you? Here's a reference of what the jig looks like for those who aren't familiar: 
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
Whatever is decided I think having the base unit available as well as a “swappable” one would be cool:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
I've had some people reach out to me- worried that responding to this poll would hurt my feelings. That's not at all the case. I'm simply asking for honest answers as a way to do some market research. It won't offend me if the price is too or if you don't like the idea. That feedback is just as useful as those who do like the idea. Regardless, tell me what you're thinking on price and what size dots you would use. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
The more I think about it, the more I would just want some sort of punch guide. Measuring is the hard part, drilling is easy part. Drill press, or even just freehand works. Plus you could use the punch to Center your various inlays $85 is tempting. $200 and I'd be looking for it in the retired luthiers yard sale. New username, same Pat Mac |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
I use 3mm and 6mm dots on my fret boards. Rather than buy a separate unit for each size, I'd probably get the 1/4" one and use a brad point bit as a marker. Perhaps you could offer a 1/4" center punch. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
Honestly, it is a tool I doubt I would ever buy. But I think the suggestion of offering a punch as an optional item is a great idea. Making a punch with a 1/4 inch shaft diameter that would leave a divot for a brad point would allow the odd sized dots to be drilled by hand (or with a drill press with a depth stop). This would also avoid changing bushings every time the dot size changed. |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
So would those of you who like the idea of using the Dot Locator as a location tool prefer to use a dedicated transfer punch over simply spinning a brad point bit by hand in the tool to mark the location? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
I would think so, because the side flutes on a brad point could mar the fretboard which would show if you use a smaller dot. Plus tapping a punch is easier than twirling a brad point. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
FWIW, I think you'd sell more of them if you could drop the price by lasering lexan rather than CNC'ing metal... |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
The punch version sounds much more versatile and could even be used for side dots on a fretboard. You might also offer high-quality brad point bits individually at reasonable prices so we wouldn't have to buy a whole set to get one or two sizes. Ed |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
The existing tool could be used as intended to drill 1/4 inch holes and the punch added as an option. No sense reengineering something ready for production. "FWIW, I think you'd sell more of them if you could drop the price by lasering lexan rather than CNC'ing metal...." Someone will probably rip off the design and create a file to 3D print it. |
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| Author: | Ben-Had [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
meddlingfool wrote: FWIW, I think you'd sell more of them if you could drop the price by lasering lexan rather than CNC'ing metal... I was thinking the exact same thing. Lexan with a metal drill bushing for a center punch I would probably buy. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
Agreed on just using it as a center punch. I do too many weird dot sizes and arrangements to try to swap out drill bushings. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
Since you asked... The issues is more who are your intended customers?* It is not an essential tool for most builders. Finding the center by drawing an "X" is just not that challenging. I actually struggle much more getting perfect side dots than face dots. It might be a tool that a high production facility may need. If I were making a dozen fingerboards at a time it would be a godsend. But for my hobby business it would be one of those tools that I would buy for myself on Christmas just for fun. That said, I would never buy it at $200. Even at $100, limited to just 1/4" holes just doesn't seem worth while. From a business perspective, if you want a broader market you really have to keep the price down. Hobbyist are different than production factories. They are VERY price sensitive and less concerned about excellence in engineering. As you've made it it's a thing of beauty and engineering. But that won't, I fear, translate into sales. Even if you do put it out there and people start buying it, if there is a cheaper way of doing the same thing someone will copy you. The lexan idea is very good. If you can have the parts for a couple hundred of these lasered up for a unit cost of a couple of dollars each, assemble them yourself with metal bushing for 5min of your effort. Perhaps the metal bushings cost you fractions of a dollar if bought in medium sized quantities. Sell it for under $60. You may be into it for $1,000 in start up costs and get your initial investment back with the first 15 you sell. I'm guessing at the costs, but I think it would take only one afternoon of telephone calls to confirm. *FWIW In my non-lutherie life I work with small businesses. My rant of the day again (I've said this here before) is that a viable business needs: PEOPLE...who pay you MONEY...for your GOODS/SERVICES. It has to start with the PEOPLE. Too often I see small business try to start with the GOODS. You have to know who your intended market is and what their purchasing patterns are. In this case it appears you are targeting hobby builders. You are not targeting the far larger and more professional repair market. As far as I know no one repairs dots. So is this a compelling tool for them? Does it solve a vexing problem for the hobbyist making a guitar a year for a few years? And if it does, you have to move on to the money aspect. How much would a hobbyist pay for a tool that solves this issue for them? It doesn't matter if the customer's expectations are absurd or unrealistic. It is not their job to make a business make sense to you. Hard answers to these questions are very elusive. For an engineer it is often easier to keep developing a great tool and solve problems of force/geometry/design. But they really are the first questions you have to ask even before you begin designing your product. Here is one potential customer's feedback: Yes, that is a cool tool that solves a problem. On a scale of lutherie problems ranging from cutting a perfect binding chanel being "vexing 10", and getting out scratches from my rasp on the heel with sandpaper being a "vexing 1", this is a 2 or 3 on that scale. I would buy that product as a centering tool with no bushings for under $20 and with a set of bushings for under $60. If it would also do perfect side dots I would DOUBLE both the "vexing" scale and what I would pay for it. So I hope that is helpful. Maybe others can chime in on how essential to them a tool like this would be and what they would find compelling price wise. Good luck with this! |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ELEVATE Dot Locator POLL |
I LOVE the idea of it being a center punch. Then, You don't have to worry about multiple dot size. And, it should be less expensive. More versatile. Center line finder, marker. |
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