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 Post subject: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:35 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:43 pm
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Location: United States
Hello All, I have a guitar I built for a customer 10 years ago. The guitar has a weak low E response. (Not balanced with the rest of the strings.) I suspect it may be a heavy brace on the sound board. (I did build heavier bracing back then). My question, are there any particular braces that should be thinned out, or any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
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Location: Seattle WA
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Whichever ones that you think you did too heavy back then. It's really hard to reach any of them through the sound hole, so you are pretty Limited. I have taken wood off of the sound bars and x-brace. It's pretty crude, but I have had a noticeable tone improvements each time.

I'm not sure how I would go about addressing a specific frequency or string. Each time I've just tried to loosen the whole thing up a bit.

New username, same Pat Mac

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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:27 am 
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Koa
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Location: United States
My first classical was pretty dead. I reached in with a rounded Xacto and started carving. Each time a little better until I got a bit too much off and it started to go bad, so I stopped. I think steel stings guitars have a lager sound hole, so it might be a tad easier. I can no longer fit my arm into a classical.


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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:21 am 
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First name: colin
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Assuming it's a steel string, and you're not talking about amplified, if you can get a hand to it, shaving/scalloping or tapering the lower bass X brace should help.
I use a wooden thumb plane myself, followed by sandpaper.
Little at a time and check changes (leave string on the guitar capo at 2nd fret and put the string back to check)

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.


Last edited by Colin North on Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:25 am 
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First name: Kevin
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Just the low E?

Have you looked at the saddle & bridge slot to make sure there's good solid contact all the way across?

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
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These users thanked the author klooker for the post: Pmaj7 (Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:05 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:13 am 
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Mark, good to see you here again. I've had some success shaving down the back braces to bring up bass. They're a lot easier to get to and shaving them doesn't risk structural issues nor dulling the trebles.

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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:48 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
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Often the best way to improve the bass response is to shave back braces. The idea is to get the 'main back' tap tone to couple more strongly with the 'main top' mode, by getting them closer together in pitch. This lowers the pitch, and strengthens, the low 'main air' part of the bass reflex couple, which is the resonance that does the most to help reinforce the lowest notes. The nice thing about this is that it doesn't weaken the top, which is far more critical structurally. You can also check out the effect reversibly. Just get some poster adhesive and stick a wad onto the back over one of the braces. This will lower the tap tone pitch in the same way as shaving that brace would, so you can hear what effect that would have. If you don't like it you can try something else. I'd be even more inclined to do this if I were thinking of shaving top braces; at least you'd know going in whether removing material was likely to work for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Alan Carruth wrote:
Often the best way to improve the bass response is to shave back braces. The idea is to get the 'main back' tap tone to couple more strongly with the 'main top' mode, by getting them closer together in pitch. This lowers the pitch, and strengthens, the low 'main air' part of the bass reflex couple, which is the resonance that does the most to help reinforce the lowest notes. The nice thing about this is that it doesn't weaken the top, which is far more critical structurally. You can also check out the effect reversibly. Just get some poster adhesive and stick a wad onto the back over one of the braces. This will lower the tap tone pitch in the same way as shaving that brace would, so you can hear what effect that would have. If you don't like it you can try something else. I'd be even more inclined to do this if I were thinking of shaving top braces; at least you'd know going in whether removing material was likely to work for you.


Very interesting and always appreciate your insight Alan but am confused a bit. Sticking a wad (of what?) on a back brace has the same effect as shaving same? I assume a wad can be a wad of anything one has handy? Again very interesting and I have guitar that's a little weak on the bass side. Maybe I'll stick a wad of something on the back and see what changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I think Alan means poster adhesive like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQMFEC/re ... 53622&sr=3

Keep in mind not to leave it on for too long (like days) because I've found it leaves an oil spot behind on walls and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:57 pm 
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First name: Larry
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bcombs510 wrote:
I think Alan means poster adhesive like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQMFEC/re ... 53622&sr=3

Keep in mind not to leave it on for too long (like days) because I've found it leaves an oil spot behind on walls and such.


Thanks...

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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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First name: Brad
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NP. And if this was all just a rouse to try to get Alan to talk about his wad(s), I'm sorry I ruined the joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Weak Low E response
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:25 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:43 pm
Posts: 147
Location: United States
As always you guys are great. Thank you. This guitar will be here in March. I have big hands and fore arms, so getting in that 4" hole is going to be a job. I will keep you updated when it comes in.


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