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| ReSaw Board Size Question http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51318 |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | ReSaw Board Size Question |
My local wood store has a very nice piece of 8/4 walnut approx 15" wide x 11 ft. long. Cost is around $225 for the entire board. Not a bad price for the quality but a little too rich for my current budget. The manager offered to cut it for me pretty much any length I wanted. I went out to the shop and see that my side stock is 34" - 36" x 4 1/2" - 5" and my tops/backs around 8" - 9" x 24". So my initial thought is to cut a 36" piece off the best end, rip 5" off for my sides rip the remainder down to 9", cut that to 24" which, in theory could yield 4 sets (1/4") if I don't blow the re-saw (50/50 chance on that BTW). This will also leave approx. 12" x 9" x 8/4 for peg head veneer and ??? I always seem to miss something when trying to figure this stuff out so is there another way to look at this? Buy the whole board? Maybe but again a little too rich today but maybe. BTW I've never seen walnut that looks like this, deep dark consistent brown, no sap wood, decent grain shapes, not much figure but gorgeous. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
I think your math works well, but I would try to keep a 1” or so wide piece, full length, to use for bindings. B |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Buy the whole board! As someone who set up a big investment to resaw my own sides, finding billets of appropriate wood is actually hard. If you felt like it, you could buy the whole board, cut it all into sets, and sell half of the sets, recover the cost of the board, and still have half leftover. Free wood, minus time spent. FWIW, I aim for 5 slices per inch, to get 5 sets per billet for 8/4 wood. IIRC, for an 11'x15" board, you should be able to get 4 side billets and 4 back billets, so 20 sets of wood, or 25$ a set. But that's on the fly calcs, I just recall seeking out 11' boards as ideal... Oh, and make you're side billets 33-34, and your backs 22... |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Thanks so much for the replies. Yeah finding billets of appropriate wood is difficult and am having my doubts about this one. Maybe I can find time to post a pic for further input. The challenge is, just seeing this piece sent off alarms - in a good way but all the guitar walnut I see for sale is very figured and much different than this piece which is a deep, deep rich chocolate brown with little to no figure. Not sure if it really is that great for guitars. I'll need to look again. ...and the math will work out better with your input. Thanks |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Bri wrote: I think your math works well, but I would try to keep a 1” or so wide piece, full length, to use for bindings. B Yeah nice, that's the kind of stuff I forget till it's too late. Thanks |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Keep in mind the orientation of the grain (flat, vertical grain,in between?). That will affect the quality of the sets you can cut from it. Just because it's a nice large board doesn't mean it's good for guitarmaking. Keep in mind that walnut can make nice neck stock so if the grain doesn't work for one thing it might be O.K. for something else. If I think the piece is good for guitar making I never regret buying the whole thing. There have been a few pieces I should have bought but didn't, but I have enough, so that's O.K. too. What kind of walnut is it? |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Clay S. wrote: Keep in mind the orientation of the grain (flat, vertical grain,in between?). That will affect the quality of the sets you can cut from it. Just because it's a nice large board doesn't mean it's good for guitarmaking. Keep in mind that walnut can make nice neck stock so if the grain doesn't work for one thing it might be O.K. for something else. If I think the piece is good for guitar making I never regret buying the whole thing. There have been a few pieces I should have bought but didn't, but I have enough, so that's O.K. too. What kind of walnut is it? Black walnut with a combination flat/vertical mostly flat...need to see the piece again to re-confirm. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Where the wood is flat sawn or at an angle some people cut it, plane it, and glue up two pieces to make vertical grained neck blanks from 8/4 stock. When the grain is at an angle they glue it up so the angles oppose. I've done it a few times, and prefer to add a center stripe to make it look intentional. If you band saw necks to shape it can be a relatively economical way to go. I generally do built up necks which work a bit differently (use a little less wood) Walnut is a pretty stable wood, so you could have some success with flat sawn sets, but unless it had some nice figuring I wouldn't chance it. Flat sawn wood tends to cup when worked thin. I would rather find pieces of vertical grained stuff and leave that large piece of wood for someone who needs it. I'm only speaking from my experience, and others may give better advice. |
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| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
When sourcing 1/4 sawn luthier wood, the biggest problem I have found is sawyers willing to cut their wood this way . Needless to say , it does waste a lot of good wood, creates more sawdust , and takes much more labour to create 1/4 sawn boards , not something most sawyers can get too excited about. Food for thought. I have resawn a lot of beautiful walnut from a local mo sawmill. I like to resaw the stock when its 2 in thick and at least 5 yrs old. That was at my old shop in MO . I have been watching my hygrometer here in OKC and it is way more humid here . I have gone from 35 % to 70% in my garage shop. I will have to take different steps to make sure my resawn 3/16in boards dont go wonkey on me and turn into wood pretzels |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Good point about grain orientation. I just assumed his board was what I wanted it to be... |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
"When sourcing 1/4 sawn luthier wood, the biggest problem I have found is sawyers willing to cut their wood this way" Even when logs are plain sawn as is commonly done, there will be a few planks that will be vertical grain. You have to pick through the pile to find them (always restack the lumber after looking) |
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| Author: | George L [ Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
A 50/50 chance with an investment that is steep for your current budget? I'd think twice; perhaps even thrice. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
George L wrote: A 50/50 chance with an investment that is steep for your current budget? I'd think twice; perhaps even thrice. Agreed George. And of course I don't really even need any wood but so hard to resist a beautiful piece of (insert any species here) wood. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Took another look at the board (it's only 8 ft. long but not a factor) and it's still a very, very nice piece of walnut but I don't think it's a nice piece of guitar walnut. Thanks for all the advice. Sorry, have no idea how to size a pic for this forum. |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Good walnut is not hard to source. I wouldn't touch that board for lutherie. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Chris Ensor wrote: Good walnut is not hard to source. I wouldn't touch that board for lutherie. Thanks Chris, I did decide to pass on it... |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
"BTW I've never seen walnut that looks like this, deep dark consistent brown, no sap wood," Not to nit pick - the board does seem to be mostly heart wood - but the lower right area appears to me to be some sap wood. The board looks "steamed", which is commonly done. Streaming makes the color migrate from the heat wood into the sap wood, and where you once had a sharp demarcation between heart and sap woods the board becomes more uniformly colored. There is nothing wrong with using the sap wood of walnut and furniture makers prefer it steamed so they can use the whole plank and not have the contrast between heart and sap. Furniture makers use parts from different boards and often stain the finished piece to create an even greater uniformity of color. Unsteamed walnut has more intense colors and often a greater variation of them. As I said, not to nit pick, but rather make you aware of some of the things they do to walnut. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Thanks Clay, did not know that. I hope I didn't sound like I knew what I was talking about as wood is still a bit mysterious to me and my memory not that great... May be interesting, the slab has a sold sign on it as the local guitar making school put a hold on it... |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Wouldn’t use for back and sides, but lots of neck potential in there. If you split right at the heart and book match, it makes for a real pretty neck... |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Book matched walnut with maple veneer in the center. Walnut makes nice necks. This one came out of a board very similar to what you've shown. I sure didn't pay anywhere near that much for it though. Attachment: DSCF0383.JPG Attachment: DSCF0291.JPG
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
That looks great Steve. I've only used walnut for a neck once but I really liked it. Now I kind of wish I had done the single maple veneer center line. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Steve, was that neck build from a 3 x 3 or a 4 x 4? I don't see a stacked heel. Don't think I've ever seen walnut in that size....Nice looking neck BTW. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
The advantage of laminating two pieces to make a neck blank is that you can use 2 inch thick (8/4) stock. You glue up two pieces 2 inches thick by 4 or 5 inches wide (with a veneer in between) and long enough to bandsaw two neck blanks from. The heel and peghead are integral with the shaft, similar to a one piece neck.It is easier to source and usually cheaper to find "eight quarter" stock than 3"X3" or 4"X4" stock. Adding a decorative veneer in the center as Steve has done makes it look more intentional and less like a cost saving measure. Also some woods reflect the light differently when the grain changes orientation (like run out in a guitar top - notice the slight color shift in the first picture Steve posted). The veneer accents this change and (to me) makes it less objectionable. |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
Clay S. wrote: The advantage of laminating two pieces to make a neck blank is that you can use 2 inch thick (8/4) stock. You glue up two pieces 2 inches thick by 4 or 5 inches wide (with a veneer in between) and long enough to bandsaw two neck blanks from. The heel and peghead are integral with the shaft, similar to a one piece neck.It is easier to source and usually cheaper to find "eight quarter" stock than 3"X3" or 4"X4" stock. Adding a decorative veneer in the center as Steve has done makes it look more intentional and less like a cost saving measure. Also some woods reflect the light differently when the grain changes orientation (like run out in a guitar top - notice the slight color shift in the first picture Steve posted). The veneer accents this change and (to me) makes it less objectionable. Got it, always hate to reveal my ignorance...but thanks for the simple explanation. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: ReSaw Board Size Question |
LarryH wrote: Steve, was that neck build from a 3 x 3 or a 4 x 4? I don't see a stacked heel. Don't think I've ever seen walnut in that size....Nice looking neck BTW. Thanks Larry. The board was an 8/4 piece about 10" wide if I recall. Sliced then bookmatched with the veneer in the middle. Just standard furniture wood I got at the local hardwood place. I made the rest of the guitar out of it too, walnut is pretty stable so it has done well for the last 10 years. Attachment: DSCF0388.JPG
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