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| Your favorite tool for... http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51298 |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Your favorite tool for... |
I'm nearing a stage in a build where I'll need to shape a nut and saddle. One of the issues I've faced previously is precision in shaping with hand files. So I ask, what is your favorite tool for shaping these things out of bone? I know processes vary as much as the builder. Thanks for any insight. B> Snow |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Assuming I start with bone blanks that are oversized in all three dimensions: 1. I thickness the blank using a Luthier's Friend in my drill press to get close, and get to final thickness by sliding it along Stickit sandpaper stuck to my bench. That last part is very finicky, and a few strokes can make a difference. You have to be conscious of trying to keep the thickness uniform when sanding by hand, because it can easily get uneven. 2. I cut to length with a razor saw, holding the blank in that little vise that StewMac sells. It is a handy little vise for this job! I hold that vise in a larger vise that is bolted to my bench. I finesse the ends with the same sandpaper stuck to my bench. I can round the ends of saddle blanks and angle the ends of nut blanks by hand on the sandpaper. It pays to be careful. 3. I create a perfectly flat bottom with one of those roller jigs that StewMac sells, again, sanding on the sandpaper stuck to my bench. This little tool is worth whatever it costs. Hand sanding blanks without a jig is not a great way to get a flat surface. We have a tendency to think it is, but it really tends to create convex edges. 4. I mark the nut with a half pencil sitting on the frets, just as a rough guide to how tall the nut should be. 5. I angle the top of the nut blank about 7.5 degrees by either using an angle jig on my disc sander or by tilting the table on my belt sander. I also curve the top of the nut and saddle this way. I tend to use a scrap piece of wood as a backup, because the blank is not much bigger than the gap between the belt/disc and the table. I leave both the nut and saddle too tall at this point. 6. I cut the string slots in the nut using a razor saw and the gauged nut slot files, after marking them out using the StewMac string spacer. Once the slots are the right depth (lots of filing, trying, filing, trying, etc.), I go back to either the disc or belt sander as in step 5 above and take off the right amount. I do the slotting and filing with the nut on the guitar, being careful not to ding the guitar. 7. If I am trying to adjust intonation on the saddle, I use a file to nudge the top of the saddle toward the front or back, as needed. I round the top of the saddle with a file in any event. During this task, the saddle is held in the little StewMac vise I mentioned earlier. I think that's it. Lots of specialized tools for this job, but they really do help make it easier to get a great fit. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
I use a small bandsaw with a metal cutting blade to hack out the basic shape. Then I use a disk sander to shape the arc and bevel on the top. I use sanding sticks to refine the shape and then polish with 800 grit paper. My process is slow, but I enjoy making the nut. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Favorite tool for making bone nuts? I'll take a disc sander every time for roughing to shape. Easy and quick - time is money, you know. Second favorite - a StewMac pillar file for final shaping. Removes material quickly with good control and finish. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Don pretty much covered it. Thickness sander for width, small bandsaw for rough length, Disc Sander for height and close to final length with a little jig to put the angle in the top. I would like to get that little expensive holder to flatten the bottoms, although I have always just done it by hand. It takes a little finesse to get it perfectly flat. Stewmac Vise for holding it is great and I use the two files they sell also for nuts and saddles. New username, same ole Pat Macaluso! |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
I wonder if I could use my drum sander for thicknessing nuts and saddles. |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
banjopicks wrote: I wonder if I could use my drum sander for thicknessing nuts and saddles. Sure Just stick it to a carrier board:) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
As far as a trusty disk sander goes.... I’ve been wanting to pick one up a long time... but find myself having paralysis by analysis. I’d love one with coplanar table and flat disk, but when I read reviews this always seems to be an issue Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
I do 90% of the shaping on my 6 X 89 sander -bye eye checking with a digital micrometer and finish with files and sandpaper. It's around a 20 min. job. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
SnowManSnow wrote: As far as a trusty disk sander goes.... I’ve been wanting to pick one up a long time... but find myself having paralysis by analysis. I’d love one with coplanar table and flat disk, but when I read reviews this always seems to be an issue If you want high precision and low cost, consider building one like I did in the following manner: 1. Get on eBay and buy a 12" steel disc from a parted out disc sander. They are on eBay all the time. Buy steel, not aluminum. 2. Buy the shaft, bearings and brackets that fit the used disc you bought. 3. Buy an inexpensive woodworking tool from Harbor Freight (like a cheap belt/disc sander) and harvest the motor, drive pulley, drive belt, on/off switch, and power cord from it. 4. Buy a pulley that fits both the shaft from #2 and the belt from #3. 5. Build a box and worktable (with dust collection factored in) that meet your needs. Have the top be split; the back half holds the brackets, bearings and shaft, the disc hangs off the front of that, and the worktable sits in front of that. The box underneath is a great place to install a dust collection port. Cut a hole for the on/off switch you harvested, and the motor sits inside the box, with a hole for the drive belt to reach the pulley on the shaft. Having the motor on a hinge helps to maintain good tension on the belt. 6. Cover up any place where the belt is exposed in the back with a simple wooden box cover. Mine is quiet, powerful, true-running, and solid as a rock. A commercially equivalent tool would cost a LOT. Mine doesn't have a tilting table, but I can make up for that with jigs. |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
doncaparker wrote: SnowManSnow wrote: As far as a trusty disk sander goes.... I’ve been wanting to pick one up a long time... but find myself having paralysis by analysis. I’d love one with coplanar table and flat disk, but when I read reviews this always seems to be an issue If you want high precision and low cost, consider building one like I did in the following manner: 1. Get on eBay and buy a 12" steel disc from a parted out disc sander. They are on eBay all the time. Buy steel, not aluminum. 2. Buy the shaft, bearings and brackets that fit the used disc you bought. 3. Buy an inexpensive woodworking tool from Harbor Freight (like a cheap belt/disc sander) and harvest the motor, drive pulley, drive belt, on/off switch, and power cord from it. 4. Buy a pulley that fits both the shaft from #2 and the belt from #3. 5. Build a box and worktable (with dust collection factored in) that meet your needs. Have the top be split; the back half holds the brackets, bearings and shaft, the disc hangs off the front of that, and the worktable sits in front of that. The box underneath is a great place to install a dust collection port. Cut a hole for the on/off switch you harvested, and the motor sits inside the box, with a hole for the drive belt to reach the pulley on the shaft. Having the motor on a hinge helps to maintain good tension on the belt. 6. Cover up any place where the belt is exposed in the back with a simple wooden box cover. Mine is quiet, powerful, true-running, and solid as a rock. A commercially equivalent tool would cost a LOT. Mine doesn't have a tilting table, but I can make up for that with jigs. I do desire a high precision machine. But I realize cost will likely follow as precision rises. I’m ok with that. Unfortunately the big brands like delta and jet seem to be “non precision”... Maybe I’m just looking too hard and it wouldn’t really make a difference Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Micro mark and proxxon have a few interesting offerings. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
I cobbled together a disc sander from a motor I had and a disc that was generously given to me by a fellow OLFer. It is direct drive and though somewhat crudely mounted works a treat. Another inexpensive way to go is to use a disc mounted in a table saw (assuming you have the saw) These can work fairly well and if you get the type that have a tapered side (wood tek) they can be used as an edge sander (by tilting the disc slightly) http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... fgrhe9ep_e |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Bandsaw and files for rough shaping. I got this 2x42 belt sander a few months ago and built an adjustable table for thicknessing nut and saddle blanks. Also works great to shape bridge wings and general bridge shaping. The 6" disk on the other end takes care of shaping the ends and the tilt table makes angled nut bottoms no problem. I use 120 grit on belt an disk.  And a granite block for flattening and final touchups. 
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
I have a (used) 16-32, but for smaller parts in my amateur shop I made a jig on my 4" belt sander. A tool that works great is a vintage parallel pliers that won't chip sides or ends of small pieces as you securely grab them. Ed |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
SnowManSnow wrote: doncaparker wrote: SnowManSnow wrote: As far as a trusty disk sander goes.... I’ve been wanting to pick one up a long time... but find myself having paralysis by analysis. I’d love one with coplanar table and flat disk, but when I read reviews this always seems to be an issue If you want high precision and low cost, consider building one like I did in the following manner: 1. Get on eBay and buy a 12" steel disc from a parted out disc sander. They are on eBay all the time. Buy steel, not aluminum. 2. Buy the shaft, bearings and brackets that fit the used disc you bought. 3. Buy an inexpensive woodworking tool from Harbor Freight (like a cheap belt/disc sander) and harvest the motor, drive pulley, drive belt, on/off switch, and power cord from it. 4. Buy a pulley that fits both the shaft from #2 and the belt from #3. 5. Build a box and worktable (with dust collection factored in) that meet your needs. Have the top be split; the back half holds the brackets, bearings and shaft, the disc hangs off the front of that, and the worktable sits in front of that. The box underneath is a great place to install a dust collection port. Cut a hole for the on/off switch you harvested, and the motor sits inside the box, with a hole for the drive belt to reach the pulley on the shaft. Having the motor on a hinge helps to maintain good tension on the belt. 6. Cover up any place where the belt is exposed in the back with a simple wooden box cover. Mine is quiet, powerful, true-running, and solid as a rock. A commercially equivalent tool would cost a LOT. Mine doesn't have a tilting table, but I can make up for that with jigs. I do desire a high precision machine. But I realize cost will likely follow as precision rises. I’m ok with that. Unfortunately the big brands like delta and jet seem to be “non precision”... Maybe I’m just looking too hard and it wouldn’t really make a difference Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk New username, same ole Pat Macaluso! |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Can I be a Nervous Nellie for a moment? I get all jittery when I see photos of power tools poised to bite or crush a finger. I see a few so far in the above posts with photos. If you are keeping your fingers on the side of the roller where it can push your fingers out and away, I suppose you are less at risk. It might hurt you, but it probably won't HURT you. But if you are getting your fingers anywhere near the side of the roller where it can grab your fingers and pull them in, that can really HURT you. Even with my little Luthiers Friend on the drill press, I get worried if I need to get my fingers anywhere near the "suck-in" side of the drum. I use wooden pencils with erasers to move the blanks through and pull them out. I'm big on push sticks, GrrrRippers, that sort of thing. Exposed belts and rollers scare the wee-wee out of me. |
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| Author: | SnowManSnow [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Pmaj7 wrote: SnowManSnow wrote: doncaparker wrote: [quote="SnowManSnow"]As far as a trusty disk sander goes.... I’ve been wanting to pick one up a long time... but find myself having paralysis by analysis. I’d love one with coplanar table and flat disk, but when I read reviews this always seems to be an issue If you want high precision and low cost, consider building one like I did in the following manner: 1. Get on eBay and buy a 12" steel disc from a parted out disc sander. They are on eBay all the time. Buy steel, not aluminum. 2. Buy the shaft, bearings and brackets that fit the used disc you bought. 3. Buy an inexpensive woodworking tool from Harbor Freight (like a cheap belt/disc sander) and harvest the motor, drive pulley, drive belt, on/off switch, and power cord from it. 4. Buy a pulley that fits both the shaft from #2 and the belt from #3. 5. Build a box and worktable (with dust collection factored in) that meet your needs. Have the top be split; the back half holds the brackets, bearings and shaft, the disc hangs off the front of that, and the worktable sits in front of that. The box underneath is a great place to install a dust collection port. Cut a hole for the on/off switch you harvested, and the motor sits inside the box, with a hole for the drive belt to reach the pulley on the shaft. Having the motor on a hinge helps to maintain good tension on the belt. 6. Cover up any place where the belt is exposed in the back with a simple wooden box cover. Mine is quiet, powerful, true-running, and solid as a rock. A commercially equivalent tool would cost a LOT. Mine doesn't have a tilting table, but I can make up for that with jigs. I do desire a high precision machine. But I realize cost will likely follow as precision rises. I’m ok with that. Unfortunately the big brands like delta and jet seem to be “non precision”... Maybe I’m just looking too hard and it wouldn’t really make a difference Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk New username, same ole Pat Macaluso![/quote] True Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Push sticks for sure. Fingers stay away from the belt. I like to play my guitars too much. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
I just made a nut for a new guitartoday and remembered this thread. Here are a few of my steps. Thickness with a drill press sanding disk. Final thicknessing with sandpaper on glass. I made a little gadget to hold nuts and saddles for sanding. The saddle part is showing.   Here is the jig for the angled bottom. Keep meaning to make the crude holding device more elegant but it works.   Sand off the ends on the disk sander and spindle sander.  Mark the estimated bottom of the string slots with the flattened pencil.  Shape with the belt sander and sanding sticks.   Cut the string slots, set up, and remove more bone from the top if needed to address slots that are too deep and final shape and polish. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
Good use of the duck bill vise from SM! |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
I have an MDF board with 4 sheets of 80 grit paper glued to it... That's it. Pretty basic, pretty simple. To rough the shape in I'll use radius blocks. |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Your favorite tool for... |
We thickness on the 22-44 ODS with a double-stick covered carrier board, final thickness by hand on sandpaper, then trim, bevel, and rough the top shape with a 12" disk sander wearing 80 grit paper. My favorite tool for shaping is really two 4" Nicholson files...a mill bastard for the rougher work and a mill smooth file for cleanup. We just bought a new box of 12 US-made new old stock Nicholson mill smooth files for $50 delivered...a few will replace the worn files on the bench, and I will be taking at least two home! A #4 Skroo-zon handle fits them perfectly. |
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