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Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
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Author:  LarryH [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I picked up a guitar body and neck the other day to finally put them together after taking some time off and noticed the date on the label was 2014...wow 4 years. Anyway, not the subject of my post but I've learned how much I have forgotten over those 4 years and have a question regarding gluing the fret board to the guitar body - or not.

I use a bolt on neck with inserts in the neck heel and after attaching the neck and stringing up the guitar I noticed (no surprise) that the neck needed some adjustment. Actually really nice as I played the guitar a bit, checked the action, played a little more checked again, adjusted the neck, and seems to have settled in pretty nicely.

So here's the question. Normally I would glue the fret board down to the guitar top but would love to find a way to attach it without glue, and make it easily removable later. Thought of rare magnets, maybe an small insert bolt set up, but am drawing a blank as to any other options. The guitar is personal and I love to experiment so any options are on the table.

The fret board is the standard thickness currently but I can add blocks or whatever if needed.

Anyone succeeded (besides Taylor) with a way to set up a (simple?) removable fret board?

Thanks
Author:  bftobin [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
If you use Titebond to glue it down, the joint is reversible. I use HHG for this because it is easier to
take apart if needed
Author:  LarryH [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Thanks and yeah been there and done that multiple times, just looking for something different and new to try. I've got some HHG that I've never used. Maybe that will be new enough?
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I know some luthiers bolt it down from inside, but since the body is done I doubt this is an option....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  klooker [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
The Gore Gilet books show one.

It's like this photo.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I consider it to be part of the joint in the way I make a guitar. I use a bolt on butt joint and glue the FB extension with HHG. Any competent repair person could have one of my necks off in 15 minutes. I know some luthiers don't glue it down but I think that's asking for trouble if for any reason some unwanted buzz but also because I believe it to be structural.
Author:  doncaparker [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I have tinkered with bolt on necks of various types. For a completely glue free joint, I think the Gore/Gilet is the best. I’m moving the other direction to traditional glued dovetails, but if I was going for a bolt on, that’s what I would do. A fair amount of work, though.
Author:  doncaparker [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I'll add: Going completely glue free means making some significant changes to the neck body joint during construction, so I would not try to do one unless you plan it that way from the beginning.

I just did a pair of bolt on butt joints with glued down fretboard extensions. The fretboard extensions fit the body perfectly, and one could be tempted to not glue them down. But, the difference in stability with vs. without glue is substantial. Without the glue, I could flex the necks sideways and get some "squeaking" out of the fretboard sliding a little bit across the top. With the glue, they are solid as a rock. I have had the same experience with a few no glue bolt ons where I only used bolts in the neck heel, and not under the fretboard. The fretboard had a wooden extension underneath it, but the whole extension could move a little in its pocket, so similar squeaking occurred while flexing the neck sideways. I have concluded that I have to either glue down the extension or firmly bolt it down, like on the Gore/Gilet neck joint. Otherwise, the neck can move a little, no matter how tight the bolts in the heel are.
Author:  LarryH [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
doncaparker wrote:
I just did a pair of bolt on butt joints with glued down fretboard extensions. The fretboard extensions fit the body perfectly, and one could be tempted to not glue them down.


That's pretty much where I'm at right now. Have very little confidence today on the neck angle playability as I've been away from building for a while. I think I'll let it settle a little more and when I'm sure the angle is correct I'll HHG the fretboard down...
Author:  Michaeldc [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
This is my current approach, and yes, the parts are done with my cnc. I can have this neck off in under 90 seconds. In the future I'm hoping to play with Mike Doolin's adjustable neck design. No neck reset ever.
Author:  DanKirkland [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Michaeldc wrote:
This is my current approach, and yes, the parts are done with my cnc. I can have this neck off in under 90 seconds. In the future I'm hoping to play with Mike Doolin's adjustable neck design. No neck reset ever.


As a guy who takes the necks off of all kinds of guitars. That is a fantastic design
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I am going to try gluing the neck extension down with 100% silicone caulk around the perimeter. Once it sets it sticks like glue, but can be "sawed" through using a thin guitar string (e or b) if you ever need to take the neck off. I've used it for gluing down Corian tops to half walls and later cut them loose using the guitar string method.
Author:  Michaeldc [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Clay S. wrote:
I am going to try gluing the neck extension down with 100% silicone caulk around the perimeter. Once it sets it sticks like glue, but can be "sawed" through using a thin guitar string (e or b) if you ever need to take the neck off. I've used it for gluing down Corian tops to half walls and later cut them loose using the guitar string method.


Dang, You could be onto something there...! Finally... a use for silicone caulk! [:Y:]
Author:  LarryH [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Michaeldc wrote:
This is my current approach, and yes, the parts are done with my cnc. I can have this neck off in under 90 seconds. In the future I'm hoping to play with Mike Doolin's adjustable neck design. No neck reset ever.


NICE - would love to play with a CNC machine....
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Here’s mine. These necks move a little more on string up than a glued extension for me. I had to make some mods in the upper bout structure to address this.

Other than using it to cushion a truss rod to prevent rattle I am not sure I’d let caulk anywhere near a guitar but I have no data to back up that feeling.

Image
Author:  Mark Mc [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
You cannot easily convert your current neck and fingerboard to a bolt-on and bolt-down system because it needs a solid extension to the neck block that extends under the fingerboard. Gluing it down will be your best solution. It only needs to be a little bit of a weak glue, just to stop it vibrating.
But on your next build you should definitely go with a fully disassemble-able system. Use the Gore/Gilet system, or give this one a try
http://www.luthierscooltools.com/Tools.htm#Bolt-on
Author:  LarryH [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Thanks so much for all the great replies and food for thought. Too late to really create a removable neck/fingerboard and will HHG the FBoard and perhaps look into systems for the future.
Author:  doncaparker [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Just a suggestion on HHG for the fingerboard extension: This is one of those places on a guitar where you don't need (and some folks really don't want) a super strong glue joint. It is also one of those places on a guitar where it could take you a few minutes to sort out the attachment of the neck. This is a prime candidate for adding a little urea to the glue. Lots more working time, and the worst that can happen is the joint is a little weaker than it otherwise would be, which for some folks is a desirable thing in this context. I just did this on two guitars a few days ago. It worked out great.
Author:  LarryH [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
doncaparker wrote:
Just a suggestion on HHG for the fingerboard extension: This is one of those places on a guitar where you don't need (and some folks really don't want) a super strong glue joint. It is also one of those places on a guitar where it could take you a few minutes to sort out the attachment of the neck. This is a prime candidate for adding a little urea to the glue. Lots more working time, and the worst that can happen is the joint is a little weaker than it otherwise would be, which for some folks is a desirable thing in this context. I just did this on two guitars a few days ago. It worked out great.


As I ponder this a bit more I can see the down time between getting the blasted bolts in the neck and the HHG setting will be no fun at all. I'm thinking I'll set the neck, loosen the bolts slightly and force some glue in to the opening under the fret board instead of leaving the open time for the glue to mess with my inexperience.

Don't have any urea but will not ignore the advice.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
You could use Old Brown Glue. If you believe data presented in a prior thread it is almost if not as strong as hot hide. Certainly adequate for a fretboard extension.

I have converted a number of old catalogue guitars that needed a neck reset to a total bolt on by gluing a mortise block between the headblock and top brace. It is nice to have a snug fit against each but you can also leave a small gap between the block and top brace and wedge a piece of wood in there afterwards for a tight fit.

Just an aside, I used T-nuts in the fretboard tenon as shown in a previous post at first but that does not leave much wood for glue and I had a couple partially pull away from the fretboard even with epoxy. I eventually went to 8-32 threaded inserts glued in. That seemed to help.

If I was just starting to use a double tenon neck the Gore design looks pretty bulletproof.
Author:  Mark Mc [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Yep - you don't want something as fast or as strong as HHG in this job. In Australia we have a common brand of PVA glue called Aquadhere. It is sold in every supermarket. You probably don't have it in the US but you will have some sort of Walmart equivalent. A general purpose woodworking glue that is weak, watery, slow curing and generally useless for anything. A glue that you should never use for anything in luthiery - except for gluing down fingerboard extensions. And then don't cover the whole of the fretboard extension, just a stripe up the middle. There is no stress on this joint so you only need a little to prevent vibration and rattle. If you ever want to undo it - a bit of heat and a thin palate knife slid up there will have it off in a jiffy
Author:  doncaparker [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I think Elmer’s white glue is the US equivalent of that Aussie PVA glue.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
I have noticed in doing neck resets on bolt on necks with a glued extension that the neck does not move as much under string tension with the extension glued as it does with it unglued. Perfect action unglued could be a little low glued requiring a slightly higher saddle.

The extension does seem to function as a brace to some degree so I think gluing it does a little more than prevent vibration.
Author:  LarryH [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
Well I glued it with HHG. Loosened the bolts and lifted the edges and forced some HHG under the edge - about 1/2" in on each side. Hopefully strong enough but not too strong for future repairs if needed.
Author:  CarlD [ Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long Time Away and a Fretboard Glue Question
So, if you don't scrape the finish off or tape before spraying (lacquer), would a couple of thin lines of melamine glue work?
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