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lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51017		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  sdsollod [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
I am working on an OM with figured maple back and sides. I'm trying to decide what I should use for the top. I have a lutz top set, but I thought that Engelmann might be a good choice for maple. I'm going for a very light color on this build, so (visually) redwood or cedar wouldn't be my first choice. BTW - This build will also feature a laminated maple neck. I thought Engelmann might tone it down (no pun intended). So, what do you think, lutz, sitka, or engelmann? ...or any other comments...
Author:  Freeman [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
All I can say is after hearing John Greven at a GAL conference several years ago I went out and bought a bunch of Lutz. I have built four guitars out of my little stash (should have bought more) and all of them have been wonderful. My particular wood was very light colored, tight consistent grain and felt stiff (I did no testing). I have two sets left and are saving them for something special.
Author:  ernie [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
If its your first I would use englemann from RC tonewoods . Lutz is pricey and expensive plus long shipping time from BC to you. If its for a paying client I would go with the LUTZ
Author:  doncaparker [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
StewMac now carries Lutz, so no worries about shipping time, if that is what you decide to use.
Author:  phavriluk [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Is OP judging wood by potential acoustic qualities or cosmetic qualities? They don't travel together, or necessarily in the same direction. And spruces overlap their qualities immensely.
Author:  violinvic [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Flip a coin. Can't lose either way.
Author:  sdsollod [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
This would be my 20th guitar. This one is not spoken for. I've had this lutz set for some time. I would go ahead and use it, but I thought that Engelmann had a somewhat softer quality, perhaps with more overtones. Maybe better for maple... I may be mistaken.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
All three species can work great and all three can be so-so depending on the individual piece and what you are putting them on. I usually use Engelmann, and it varies all over the place both in looks and stiffness. Several years ago I bought a dozen Sitka tops from Alaska Specialty Woods and they have been consistently good. I haven't worked with Lutz, but have always heard good things about it.
An O.M. is a fairly large guitar, so if the lutz you have is reasonably stiff and a color you like, I would use that. All the spruces darken considerably after a few years, so what is paper white today is pumpkin colored tomorrow. Maple darkens also and some furniture makers treat it with potassium permanganate to accelerate this natural process.
If you haven't worked with Engelmann, buy a dozen sets of the lower grade stuff (ask for some variety in the looks - stripey to flat white) and work with it. Plane them all to the same (maximum) thickness and see how they compare to each other in stiffness. You might be surprised by the variation within the species.
Author:  Freeman [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
sdsollod wrote:
This would be my 20th guitar. This one is not spoken for. I've had this lutz set for some time. I would go ahead and use it, but I thought that Engelmann had a somewhat softer quality, perhaps with more overtones. Maybe better for maple... I may be mistaken.


My recollection of the Greven seminar is that he said that Lutz was a hybrid of Sitka and Engleman, but had the strength and stiffness of red spruce (old adi). Wood experts may correct me.

The interesting part of the seminar was that he had three identical guitars built from various cuts of Lutz spruce. He had sister sets of each that he tapped and flexed for the audience, then the corresponding guitar was played. My wife turned to me and said "now I'm starting to understand what you are doing out there when you're tapping on a piece of wood". Wish I did.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
the top wood is a bit but lets not you have to learn to match the top bracing to get out what you want. It is more than just the top wood.
Author:  sdsollod [ Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
So much for generalizations on specific species... beehive
Author:  DannyV [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Flip a coin. Pick one. Build a guitar. Repeat 3 or 4 times with each wood. Take notes and pay close attention to the outcome. :lol:

Differences in high quality top wood are pretty subtle. Sitka and Lutz will possibly have a little more punch. I have had great results with several of those with Maple. I think John said, how you brace it is what really matters.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Freeman wrote:
sdsollod wrote:
This would be my 20th guitar. This one is not spoken for. I've had this lutz set for some time. I would go ahead and use it, but I thought that Engelmann had a somewhat softer quality, perhaps with more overtones. Maybe better for maple... I may be mistaken.


My recollection of the Greven seminar is that he said that Lutz was a hybrid of Sitka and Engleman, but had the strength and stiffness of red spruce (old adi). Wood experts may correct me.

The interesting part of the seminar was that he had three identical guitars built from various cuts of Lutz spruce. He had sister sets of each that he tapped and flexed for the audience, then the corresponding guitar was played. My wife turned to me and said "now I'm starting to understand what you are doing out there when you're tapping on a piece of wood". Wish I did.


Lutz is a hybrid of Sitka spruce and white spruce. An interesting consequence of it being a hybrid is that the mix of Sitka and white spruce traits in a given Lutz tree depends a lot on the location where the tree grew. Hybrid trees growing closer to the coast where Sitka trees grow have a higher proportion of Sitka traits. Hybrid trees more inland closer to the range of white spruce have a higher proportion of white spruce traits.

It would be interesting to talk with a geneticist who has studied the hybridization between Sitka and white spruce to see how broad the range of traits is in hybrid Lutz trees compared the range of trait variation within Sitka and white spruce trees.
Author:  Woodie G [ Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Outside of acoustics and structural considerations, the cooler, creamier color of Engelmann and Lutz may be a better match to some maples that are a bit cooler in color without a stain or dye to warm them up. We have a spec 0000/grand auditorium guitar that really shows this contrast between the cooler color of the quilted maple body woods and sitka top, and it produces a love/hate response in most people that see it.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Lutz is a Hybrid of Sitka & White Spruce.
In a order from High Mountain you may get a Sitka looking top(reds)
Or White spruce.
Looks like Engelmann or even some Euro tops.
I use these tops for everything.
The Sitka ones (a bit heavier than the white)
for steels.
The white less in weight ones for Flamencos & classicals.
Mike
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
sdsollod wrote:
I am working on an OM with figured maple back and sides. I'm trying to decide what I should use for the top. I have a lutz top set, but I thought that Engelmann might be a good choice for maple. I'm going for a very light color on this build, so (visually) redwood or cedar wouldn't be my first choice. BTW - This build will also feature a laminated maple neck. I thought Engelmann might tone it down (no pun intended). So, what do you think, lutz, sitka, or engelmann? ...or any other comments...


I don't get in here much, but when I do I look to see what has been discussed since my last visit. I believe your first choice of wood should be dependent on the playing style your build is intended for. If bluegrass type playing, something hard and stiff like Most sitka would be the best in my opinion. But if you want to fulfill the finger-style players dream, then a lighter density soundboard would be your ticket.. But guess what you can fulfill that with some of our old growth sitka that is extremely light density. I'm talking 5.5-6.8 grams per cu. inch- light density. And yet have all the elasticity and hardness of sitka, that makes sitka such a great choice for "take a beating" toughness. I recognize the Sollod name, as one who has ordered our products in the past.
That's my 2 cents.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
I have used a fair amount of Lutz, all stuff I got from Shane in the past. The stuff I have used seemd to be softer than Adi or Sitka, dented more easily during construction and seemed to me to be well suited for expressive fingerstyle playing.

I wouldn’t say it behaves like Red Spruce at all in my hands but who wants to argue with John Greven.

One of my favorite Guitars was a double side Lutz OM with Maple outer and IRW inner sides.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Yes It[Lutz] is a softer fiber specie of spruce. I would suspect to be generally a smidgen harder than engleman.
Author:  Tommy K [ Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: lutz, sitka, or engelmann on Maple B&S?
Port Orford cedar is another option if you can find it. I built an SJ with maple and PO cedar. Beautiful warm low end but still snappy on the highs.
Smells a bit like Pinesol though!

T
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