| Official Luthiers Forum! http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Shop Lighting http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50997 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | ernie [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Shop Lighting |
Moving into new shop shortly its a 40 by 30 slab , 12 ft ceilings Builder says you get 2 small lights . My question is, what is a good viable lighting system that you are using for your exterior shop . Also . will be working from our 3 car garage which is 116 ft from the shop it to will get a basic light, and will need some good shop lighting . Thanks in advance for your responses, |
|
| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
My shop is 22' x 15' and I have six 4' long 4-tube commercial fluorescent fixtures in two rows. I also have 5 or 6 LED task lights. If the the fluorescent lights ever die (still waiting after 11 years) I'll replace them with T-8's. Edit: I'm in the shop now and only have six fixtures, not eight as I originally said. |
|
| Author: | Bob Orr [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
I use the LED tubes that replace fluorescent lights. They are much better. No flickering, no humming and they come on instantly. Nice even light and low heat and low power usage compared to anything else. Bob |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
If you are starting from scratch, I would not buy anything built for fluorescent bulbs. I would just go straight to LED. I replaced a fluorescent tray light with an LED tray light and it works great. As my fluorescent fixtures crap out over the next decade, I will be replacing each one with an LED equivalent. To clarify: If starting from scratch in 2018, I would not buy a fluorescent fixture and fill it with LED bulbs. I would simply buy an LED fixture. |
|
| Author: | Ruby50 [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
SteveSmith wrote: My shop is 22' x 15' and I have eight 4' long 4-tube commercial fluorescent fixtures in two rows. I also have 5 or 6 LED task lights. If the the fluorescent lights ever die (still waiting after 11 years) I'll replace them with T-8's. This is EXACTLY my experience, except my shop is 16 X 30, mine are 2 bulb units, and I have been in a little over 10 years. I made the mistake of buying a box (25?) of 4 foot bulbs thinking it was cheaper and I would have spares, and not one has burned out yet. Definitely go with the LED's. I find the 8 2 bulb fixtures (one per 60 ft2 of floor) is fine for background lighting. Ed |
|
| Author: | jshelton [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
my shop is 30' x 42'. Started off with 4 x 4' x 4 tube fluorescents and spotlights and later switched to led. I've now added a bunch of 4' x 2 tube leds that are daisy-chained together. I really like the led fixtures and apparently they're good for many years. A big plus on the led fixtures is the low electricity consumption. |
|
| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
If starting new I would put in LED's. |
|
| Author: | CarlD [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
See if the builder can put a duplex outlet (or 2) instead of the light fixture. Then you can hang several 4' LED fixtures from the ceiling and plug them in to be controlled by the wall switches. I've replaced several fluorescent tubes with LEDs. They will light up for about 45 minutes and then go out for about 15 minutes and then light up again. Kinda frustrating.....Go for dedicated LED fixtures. C**tco's got good deals on them. Carl |
|
| Author: | jshelton [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
CarlD wrote: I've replaced several fluorescent tubes with LEDs. They will light up for about 45 minutes and then go out for about 15 minutes and then light up again. Kinda frustrating. Carl Odd, I've not had that problem. Sounds like something is overheating, time to replace the fixture. |
|
| Author: | CarlD [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
It does happen more on a 100 degree summer day than at 45 degrees in the winter....no insulation in the garage. |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
CarlD wrote: See if the builder can put a duplex outlet (or 2) instead of the light fixture. Then you can hang several 4' LED fixtures from the ceiling and plug them in to be controlled by the wall switches. I concur! Roughly the same amount of work for the builder, less work for you later. In fact, can you get the builder to go ahead and put in more outlets up there, to cover all of your overhead lighting needs? It is easy enough to do yourself later, but you might as well have them put in now, while they are already doing the lighting circuit. |
|
| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
Another plus for outlets in the ceiling is you can hang extension cord reels away from the walls and reduce the tripping hazard from cords on the floor. My lighting is a hodge podge of existing residential lights, some track lighting given me that I aim at the various stationary tools, articulated desk lamps on the ends of the work benches, and some fluorescents that were originally under cabinet lights, again freebies. The shop, being divided up into small spaces doesn't lend itself to a standard lighting plan, so it is a put as needed and available scheme. It's principle virtue is initial cheapness and easy replaceability. |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
Clay S. wrote: Another plus for outlets in the ceiling is you can hang extension cord reels away from the walls and reduce the tripping hazard from cords on the floor. A great idea, but remember that those outlets should be on a different circuit from the lighting circuit. You don't need the table saw tripping a circuit breaker, causing both the lights to go out, and the table saw to wind down, in the middle of a cut! That's just a very full bucket of trouble. |
|
| Author: | Woodie G [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
A rational approach to the problem of lighting a new workshop: - Determine the light levels needed for the work done in each area, generate a count of the type and fixtures needed, then determine the site for each fixture - If the shop layout is really an unknown, then consider lighting the entire shop to a minimum standard, and provision the lighting scheme for additional fixtures to be added once the locations of benches, machines, and storage areas are fixed In general, the following recommended lighting intensities apply to the indicated activities: Storage Areas: 150 lumen/m^2 (13 lumen/ft^2) Normal Office Space: 500 lumen/m^2 (45 lumen/ft^2) Detailed Mechanical Workshops, Operating Rooms: 1000 lumen/m^2 (45 lumen/ft^2) Very Detailed Mechanical Works: 1,500-2,000 lumen/m^2 (135-180 lumen/ft^2) To light your 30' x 40' shop at normal office levels, which is not all that bright, and never sufficient for fine work: 1,200 ft^2 x 45 lumen/ft^3 = 54,000 lumen With each two tube fixture = 4,000 lumen, that is 14 two tube fixtures. Each fixture represents a .4 amp current draw, so those 14 fixtures represents just 5.6 amps...most likely on a 20 amp lighting circuit. If lighting the entire 30' x 40' space, three rows of 5 two-tube fixtures would support generation of at least 54,000 lumen, assuming 2,000 lumen T-8 LED bulbs and efficient fixtures. Provisioning your shop for the 1,500-2,000 lumen/m^2 intensity suggested for fine work would require at least two separate circuits to avoid all shop lighting having a single point of failure (think about possible consequences of a circuit breaker popping on your lighting circuit when using the tablesaw or jointer...which continue to run in your darkened shop). Better, three separate 20 amp lighting circuits with each controlling one row of lighting would allow the number of fixtures in any given area to be tripled or quadrupled (we use 3-4 fixtures over/around each bench) without exceeding ampacity of the existing wiring. Three light switches at the shop entrance (with 2, 3, or 4 way wiring on at least one of the circuits at all other entrances) would seem to be a good idea, and avoids the cumulative years hours spent shuffling between work light fixtures and yanking on pull cords. So in summary, two, three or four separate 20 amp lighting circuits (task lighting is most likely running off your 2-3 20 amp utility 110V outlets at waist height supporting wall-located tools/benches) running at least 1 direct-wired 4,000 lumen LED fixture per 10 ft x 8 ft 'bay' of the workshop, with provisions to triple any fixture. Other considerations? - Work light pull cords jiggle the fixture, dumping accumulated dust onto fresh finish work; fixed lighting collects less dust and is not physically disturbed by the on/off cycle. If absolutely committed to ceiling outlets and work lights, put them on switched circuits (which would likely be close to the cost of the dedicated, installed lighting, given the LEDs do not need ballasts). - If shutting down all shop lighting involves flipping 2-3 co-located switches, it's much more likely that those switches will be used when running to the house for a bathroom break or quick meal. Cost of electricity is usually a noticeable element of shop overhead. - Aging eyes require more light to see details, and all eyes benefit from at least two separate light sources to improve depth perception and contrast - Northern light (in Northern Hemisphere) during the day is the best natural lighting for fine work, but the winter months when we do most of our craft work also offers the fewest hours of daylight |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
Yo heads up everyone . I really appreciate all the great advice . I have called the builder, to ask for the extra duplex lighting. Yes definitely going to search for a wholesale LED lighting supplier. Found a mill that sells green hdwd cheap for a floor . Thank you once again!!! |
|
| Author: | CarlD [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
I put most of the 115V circuits in the shop with 12-2 including the lighting circuits so Clay's suggestion of extension cord drops works ok for me. |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
My concerns about the extension cord drops are not about the capacity of the cable, but more about the idea of putting power tools with large loads on the same circuit as the lighting. I would not put anything in a workshop on a lighting circuit other than lighting. Put everything else in a workshop on a different circuit. Some codes might allow the placement of outlets and lighting on the same circuit (like in a bathroom, with GFCI outlets), but that doesn't make it ideal or safe in a workshop environment. Just my opinion. |
|
| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
I agree that having both lighting and power tool outlets is not ideal, but if you are running two switched circuits you can have lighting on one and power tools on the other. Lighting usually draws little electricity and although I use 12-2 wire minimum for circuits I try not to have too many that are minimally used. The inspector might look askance if you have 400 amps worth of breakers in a 100 amp panel (even if you have spaces to put them) The reason I would suggest plugs for lighting is it makes them easier to service or replace, but even that isn't a big deal. |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
I hear you on the two circuits, Clay, and I don’t disagree you could do it that way. As long as you don’t have literally all the lights sharing a circuit with the heavy load tools, you should be OK. But since this is a “from scratch” shop build, Ernie might as well go the better route and keep the two separate. I definitely agree on installing outlets instead of hard wired fixtures, where that is possible. It sure makes upgrades and tweaking of locations easier. |
|
| Author: | david farmer [ Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
Hey Ernie, http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48831&p=644324&hilit=shop+lighting#p644324 One of the best decisions I made in my 30' x 40' shop: dropping the fixtures so dust collection, air hose, extension cords, etc., could run over the lights, casting no shadows and providing convenient, reconfigurable runs. One of the worst: sticking with ballasted florescent's a year or two before LED's became viable. |
|
| Author: | Woodie G [ Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
Given what I would expect in a small, separate shop, three 15 or 20 amp 110V lighting circuits, three 20 amp 110V utility circuits, 3 to 4 220V dedicated circuits for tablesaw (20A), band saw (20A), compressor (30A), and dust collector (20A), and a 20A 110V outdoor lighting circuit sounds about right. If the shop will be air conditioned and heated, there might be additional breakers for AC (30A-40A?) and heat (30A for electric). Total lighting load is perhaps 10 amps, and running tablesaw (30A) and dust collector (20A) still leaves 40A for HVAC. Your electrician should have sized the service to the shop with a load analysis, which is what the inspector may ask for should any questions arise. Splitting the lighting into at least two separate circuits is much safer from the viewpoint of losing lights in the middle of a operation, and the 6 amps of calculated load from dedicated LED lighting circuits at office-level lighting intensity will be split between however many circuits will be used. Designing a system for a single point of failure seems like an avoidable error. |
|
| Author: | ernie [ Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
David thank you for sharing the pics and advice . Isn/t hindsight always like 20 -20 lol. So will do the lights as you suggested . The builder did not return my call . But i don/t think the foundation has been put down by the crew . I did ask for a vapor barrier and we will get 5- 110 v out lets on one wall and 5 - 220 v on another . I have submitted the electrical layout to the builders, Probably hear from them next week on the duplex circuit for the lights and the wall mounted switch . the shop will be on a 100 amp line. The biggest draw will be the thickness sander running at abt 20 amps 220 v and the 1.5 hp dust collector running 13 amps on a 110 v line , Gonna definitely go with the LED lights more expensive but cheaper in the long run , I just replaced 2 ballasts in the kitchen lighting what a PITA. The el cheaperoni shop lights from homeless depot and lowes have not lasted the 16 yrs that we have been here. A lot of those lights have either died or are partially working especially when it gets cooler. The cheapies also eat a lot of bulbs up . Thank you all for sharing it is much appreciated!!! |
|
| Author: | Ruby50 [ Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shop Lighting |
ernie I was putting my new one-man shop together 10 years ago and was (and still am) on a fantastic woodworking forum. Lots and lots of advice, but the best was duplex outlets 4 feet off the floor every 4 feet of wall. At least 2 circuits, with alternating outlets so no adjacent ones are on the same circuit. All of my 6 stationary tools are 110v, so I did not put in 220, but easy enough in the future. Then I put 4 quad outlets in the centers of the 4 quadrants of the ceiling of my 16 X 30 shop and use each one for 2 4 foot 2 bulb fluorescent fixtures (still waiting for one to burn out to replace with LED) Ed |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|