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Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50927		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mtracz [ Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Hello OLF,

It's been a bit for me here and let me start with... I have not done a search on this topic yet and will likely immediately after I hit submit.

Is anyone using something other than the exotics for bridges and fingerboards? I have a stock of hard maple that seems to be perfect and I have been looking for an excuse to experiment with dies and other methods of 'ebonizing' lighter woods. I also have some relatively tight grain cherry that could do the trick as well.

Any help, suggestions, anecdotes, findings, experiences, or recommendations would be a great help.

I hope all is well and than you in advance!!!
Author:  mtracz [ Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
So I did the search and found these topics:

maple bridge?
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33261&hilit=maple+bridge

birds eye maple for a bridge?
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17455&hilit=maple+bridge

It looks like maple may be a good alternative especially since I will be working on another Wessenborn style instrument.

Still, if anyone has any updates since these post were created please reply. I'd love to hear how it worked or didn't work for you.
Author:  rlrhett [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
There have been several post about domestic fingerboards. Same issue really. We have suggestions like Osage Orange, Mesquite, Persimmons, and a half dozen others. The issue is really availability. There don't seem to be any domestic hardwoods that are widely available that have the wear resistance, hardness, and weight to match the typical ebony or rosewood. But if you search for domestic hardwoods on this forum you are sure to find several useful threads.
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I hate say it but Fender has been using from the beginning. It needs a finish to keep it clean but I don't see any problems aside from snobbery.
Author:  ernie [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I prefer the look of e, walnut not as dense as e . maple but can be easily dyed black or ebonized , perfect for a falcate style bridge, ss or cl gtr. Our subdivision cut down a large old redbud tree, last year . I harvested a good chunk of that tree , and resawed a bunch of potential bridge blanks , headstock plates. etc The wood has a greenish brown /olive cast similiar to
african ovangkol or shedua.From our research it is hard , dense, planes readily but checks a lot when drying , it is about as hard as red oak , it might be suitable for uke FB / bridge, glues easily as well. Common in some parts of the usa.but not a commercially available hdwd. You might try different native hdwds and see how they work for you in your builds. If one is not familiar with our native hardwoods ,.I would just stick with something simple like e. indian rosewood , maple, ebony etc.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
American Persimmon is a true ebony... (diospyros virginiana)
Author:  Jason King [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I'm a big fan of mesquite for bridges and fingerboards. I tried my hand at ebonizing with iron acetate this time around with remarkably dark results.
Author:  ernie [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
jason I/ve never used mesquite before, where did you source it from in TX ??? Thank you
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I've use arizona ironwood. If you can find it in suitable cuts, its a great bridge wood.

Others I'd consider would be osage orange, persimmon and mesquite.
Author:  ernie [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Chris I have some desert ironwood from ca, desert IMHO its too heavy for a a bridge, (maybe for a SS) but I do have some cut up for fb and headstock veneer, I/ve used OO but the stuff I got tears easily , and requires much sanding because of the open grain . etc/.I/ve used local persimmon, for bridges and fb it moves a lot when drying , but I like the mottled black and white look. Movin to OK soon and the mesquite map shows that it it grows down in the state line between ok and tx and down into n. mexico
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Fingerboards are the big issue, alright. Persimmon works about like Macassar ebony, but it's not normally back. I've had good luck staining it with a walnut hull tea, which gets it to about the same color as walnut. Black is nicer, but at least with the stain it doesn't show the dirt as much. The same stain work well with hornbeam and maple.

I did make one fingerboard years ago from Soft Shell almond that a student retrieved from a fire wood pile in California. It's about as hard, dense, and tight grained as ebony, but medium brown in color. I could not get it to take any stain.

Northwind Tonewood has done some work with dying persimmon black all the way through. When it works it's great, but the process is somewhat unreliable. It's also expensive, so that a dyed fingerboard costs about the same as a regular ebony one. At the moment they're not doing much with this, and I don't think the wood is currently available.
Author:  Jason King [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Ernest:

I use Blackhawk Millowrks in San Marcos. They're a local sawmill, specializing in locally felled trees. They've got a great selection of mesquite, pecan, cypress, etc. in huge sizes. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

I should note, they specialize in big lumber (giant conference tables, etc.) but they've always been a pleasure to work with.
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Most of the "fruit woods" have been used at one time or another - Pear, Apple , cherry, walnut, etc., and occasionally they are the prefered wood for some instruments (Pearwood for lutes). But most are not black or even dark colored, which seems to be the expectation for guitar bridges. They also tend to not be as dense as tropical hardwoods which may affect the sound.
I know a lot of people are trying to build with all domestically sourced and/or synthetic materials but there are still a lot of good imported woods that are not restricted which can serve as high quality replacements for those that are. Like the saying "it's always 5 o'clock somewhere", all woods are "domestic" somewhere. [uncle]
Author:  ernie [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Thanks Jason its a shlep from way n. OKC to san marcos, (6hr trip) are there any mills closer to dallas ??? . it s abt a 2.5 hr drive down there, and we will definitely be going to dallas for shopping, my wife has numerous credit cards LOL
Author:  CarlD [ Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I'm trying some manzanita from my yard for bridges and fingerboards and other parts.
Haven't shaped or profiled the bridges yet and they're 35 grams.
Author:  mtracz [ Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Thank you everyone of the replies! I’ve got some digging to do. Part of my search for domestic woods is to be responsible and the other is because I’m a bit thrifty and have a bunch of maple and cherry.

I’m going to look around here (Ohio) for the woods mentioned. I don’t need it to be black and prefer character.

I’m also exploring torrified maple as well. There is a place in Michigan that offers it.

Again thank you for the replies! Have a great day!!!

_Mike
www.musrcreate.co
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
There are lots of domestic woods that should be suitable for a bridge. I use walnut frequently. It is less dense than most of the 'traditional' woods, but that's more a benefit than a problem unless you're married to the 'traditional' look. I particularly like walnut bridges on redwood or cedar tops. Those woods have lower peel strength than spruce, and it helps to make the bridge a bit larger. With the loower density of walnut you don't ennd up with a heavy bridge. Also, move the saddle slot back a bit when using any of the softer woods, to help avoid split outs. Even better, move it back and cut it so that the saddle is at a back angle as viewed from the side, which helps minimize the tipping force.

I've never used cherry, although it ought to work. Maple is good. So is persimmon. For that matter, almost anything that is called 'iron wood' locally should be fine.
Author:  sdsollod [ Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Alan,
You mentioned walnut for a bridge. Will walnut work for a fingerboard?

I found these mesquite boards on sale at Woodcraft. I threw them on my pile thinking I could use them for fingerboards at some point. Nontraditional, but attractive...
Author:  CWL [ Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I got some D. nigra seeds back in 2008 and have been growing it since in Taiwan. So that's a domestic wood for guitar making. I believe it's a tree worth planting.
Attachment:
100_9514s.JPG



I have used it as bridges for a ukulele and a gourd sanshin(and its neck). Its juvenile wood has similiar properties of sapwood of most rosewoods.
ImageIMG_6922
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
IMO walnut is too soft for use as a fingerboard wood.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I agree that Eastern Black Walnut is too soft. However, Bastogne Walnut is quite a bit harder and makes a nice fretboard. I also used it for the bridge and it worked just fine. I prefer it a bit darker but with a bit of Howard's it looks just fine.

Attachment:
Bastogne Walnut Fretboard.JPG
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Hi Chih -Wei,
Cool gourd sanshing. Your's has frets. Is that something different from traditional instruments?
Author:  CWL [ Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Clay S. wrote:
Hi Chih -Wei,
Cool gourd sanshing. Your's has frets. Is that something different from traditional instruments?


Well it's actually an experimental fretted instrument designed to be used as Taiwanese Yueqin. A traditional Taiwanese yueqin has two strings, often tuned in C-F or D-G. Mine is D-G-D. Traditional Okinawa sanshin(which means three strings) tuning is C-F-C, and they are simliar in musical purpose.

Taiwanese version of yueqin was made by Chinese poor immigrants in 19th century. It was simplified

I made this in 2013 simply because I was given a beautiful gourd and I happened to have a BRW branch which was somewhat suitable for its neck. I build mostly classical guitars btw.

ImageIMG_5261 by Chih-Wei Liu, 於 Flickr

ImageIMG_5324 by Chih-Wei Liu, 於 Flickr
Author:  bcombs510 [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
Thanks for sharing that, Chih-Wei. People make some cool stuff. I'm still here spinning my wheels making Martin copies.
Author:  printer2 [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Domestic alternative for acoustic bridges?
I used walnut on a nylon guitar and I have grooves worn in under the strings. I would have been happy about the guitar living for a few weeks, tried some new things on it. Ended up really liking it, will replace the fb some day. I am trying a wood as a bridge plate that does not get much mention much, don't know why. Hickory. Saw a few pieces bagged up to barbecue on, thought I would try it.
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