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| How much fall off...? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50874 |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How much fall off...? |
How much fall off is acceptable? At what point do you decide to put in a shim? Take a look at these photos. I can push the fretboard extension down with my thumb. I'm sure I could glue it down (although, it is cocobolo), but it might look like a lot of fall off. I could but a shim under the fretboard extension to provide a slight amount of fall off without it looking too "sloped". The gap at the end of the fretboard is 1.5mm. What do you think? |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
1.5 mm seems far too much for me. I'm usually about 0.2 - 0.4 mm |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
For that much of a gap on a reset I shim the bottom of the fret board so that the fret board is not bent. Generally fall away is milled into the top of the extension or even just into the frets; I don't measure it but it's around 0.010" or so drop from the 12th fret to the last fret on the fret board. |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
That seems like a lot, but the real question is, do you play above the 14th fret? It looks like that is a cutaway so you probably intend to, you guitar won't buzz because the action is increasing fairly dramatically with each fret, but it will be harder to play. If you are trying to optimize the action in that area then I would shim the extension and pay attention to transition from relief to heel to extension. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
How high are the strings off the top at the bridge location? |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
SteveSmith wrote: For that much of a gap on a reset I shim the bottom of the fret board so that the fret board is not bent. Generally fall away is milled into the top of the extension or even just into the frets; I don't measure it but it's around 0.010" or so drop from the 12th fret to the last fret on the fret board. Same here 
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
If the string height at the bridge is on the high side you could lower it and reset the neck to reduce the amount of fall away. Eventually you will lose some fall away as the body distorts, but that is kind of a chancy proposition and who knows how much, how soon? |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
Just shim it. Trust me you will hate it later when you realize that you could have made a simple shim. My first several guitars were hit or miss with that and I still own a few of them and it pains me to see the excessive fall away to this day. It's easy enough to shim it, perfectly acceptable practice in doing so. Once I finally figured this neck angle stuff out I gave up on fall away all together. IMHO it makes no sense. Straight shot from nut to saddle! |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
jfmckenna wrote: Just shim it. The only problem that I see with this guitar is it looks like Steve has put a piece of light purfling at the bottom of his neck binding - that line will end up floating above the body Quote: Once I finally figured this neck angle stuff out I gave up on fall away all together. IMHO it makes no sense. Straight shot from nut to saddle! I just try to build a continuous fret plane with no bumps or jumps. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
"The only problem that I see with this guitar is it looks like Steve has put a piece of light purfling at the bottom of his neck binding - that line will end up floating above the body" That was my thinking also. If he just glued it down the total fall away would be about .060 inches - about the thickness of an extra heavy low E string. And that is at the extreme end of the board. To reduce the fall away some (1/2 mm) high fret wire could be used on the fretboard extension. That might make the fall away start at fret 16 or 17. |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
I have never had to do it (8 guitars) but I have seen thinning the top at the neck joint to lower the neck a bit and reduce the gap. Ed |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
I would rather have a shim and a straight fretboard then a hardly noticeable line under the purfling. It can almost be seen as intentional. I have used spruce or top wood and the same wood as the fretboard. It's just a pet peeve of mine because as I said for my first 20 guitars or so I've had to deal with that and I hate seeing it. The first thing I do when I look at a custom guitar is site down the fretboard like shooting a rifle to see the lay of the fretboard. Having said that honestly one of my favorite guitars that I built in 2001 and still play today has a gross amount of fall away. I never play up there anyway. But I sure do hate looking down the fretboard at it  I'm sure it's fine, glue it down and move on. If it bothers you in the future then fix it 
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
Side note, are those just perflings or sheets glued to the whole bottom of the fretboard? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
Since it is a bound board my guess would be purflings. |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
That is indeed purfling. I intend to put in a shim. I will use the same black walnut that I used for the neck. When finished it will be very dark and shouldn't look bad. In fact, this is a very "modern looking" guitar, with the florentine cutaway, arm bevel, and sound port, so the shim shouldn't stand out like it might for a more traditional style guitar. |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
This should work just fine... It looks like there is a little gap, but when its clamped down the little gap will be gone. There will be a "skosh" of fall off, which should be just perfect. I had some of the same black walnut used for the neck and had some fun with my No. 4 plane. Here is also a shot of the guitar, just about ready for finishing. I'll post some glamour shots when its done. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
Lookin' Good. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How much fall off...? |
That should work good. I notice the wedges initially but after a while I forget they're there and nobody else notices them either. |
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