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Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50864		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I just gave it a go carefully following the directions on the site. Instead of a nice, thin, smoothly flowing coat, I got a thick sticky mess with clear ridges, swirls, and stroke marks. A bloody mess that'll have to come off.

Any idea what I've done wrong, or what that may indicate?
Author:  doncaparker [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
By padding, do you mean French polish? I have a previous thread about French polishing with Royal Laq. It is a little stickier than ordinary shellac, but that’s nothing a little lubrication with olive oil won’t solve.

If you are trying to go without a lubricating oil, I don’t have any advice for how to do that well, either with regular shellac or Royal Laq. I need the oil to make it go on well.

French polish was the way of applying Royal Laq that worked best for me. Brushing was not good for me.
Author:  ernie [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I/ve switched to walnut oil as per the article on Mr clarks FP article in the GAL. I/ve also used mineral oil/ baby oil as well. Michael thames on youtube has an excellent 3 part tutorial on his FP methods well worth watching IMHO.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I'm guessing the PC Royal Lac is different then the standard stuff. The regular stuff can be padded on with oil as was mentioned. It feels different and it took me a bit of time but I finally 'got' it and was able to FP with the Royal Lac by making a more dilute solution and using walnut oil.
Author:  Goodin [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
jfmckenna wrote:
I'm guessing the PC Royal Lac is different then the standard stuff. The regular stuff can be padded on with oil as was mentioned. It feels different and it took me a bit of time but I finally 'got' it and was able to FP with the Royal Lac by making a more dilute solution and using walnut oil.



Correct. RL Post Cat is different than regular RL. RL Post Cat is designed to be sprayed and is not recommended for French polishing. I've sprayed a few instruments with it and really like the results.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
John is right. Yesterday I typed out a whole reply about my experiences with FPing royal lac and the adjustments I made. Right before I posted it, I realized that Ed is asking about the Post Cat royal lac. I have no experience with it.

My experience with regular royal lac and FP is that I use a bit more oil (olive oil) than I normally would and it took a little getting used to to figure out the amount of shellac and alcohol to have on the pad at any given time. As part of my experimentation, I did one top with straight royal lac on the pad and as much oil as it took to keep it from sticking at the bodying stage. It built fast but the surface was really "lumpy." I let it set-up for several days and sanded it back to flat and moved on to glazing. I think I will try that approach again in the future. It sanded really nicely with olive oil as the lubricant. I know this may be FP heresy so don't tell anyone :)
Author:  banjopicks [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
Been out of this for a while and this is the first I've heard of this finish. I love french polishing and would love to be able to get a durable finish with it. Sounds like this is the product. Is it repairable like regular shellac and does it melt into the previous layer no matter how much time has passed?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
Thanks folks!
Author:  sjfoss [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
Ed,

Timely post as I'm about to give RLPC a try.

What the videos that Vijay published means by "padding on" isn't french polishing, but more of a 'painting' RLPC onto the surface using a pad that is several times bigger than a normal FP fad. It seemed to me that by the time Vijay had the pad ready, he'd put on probably as much plain alcohol onto the pad as RLPC. We're about to find out...

When FPing with original RL, I cut it to 1 lb and use olive oil more often in the process. Seems to work for me.

A wise man once told me, "it's not how much you put on, it's how much to leave on". Happy sanding!

Steve
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I followed the Vijay video and immediately was like... WTF!

Robbie O'Brien had a video too where they 'pad' it on in straight strokes sort of like you would do in traditional French Polish glazing.

I simply could not understand how they successfully did that. My experimentation with that was miserable.

So no... I guess I cannot speak for others here but in the context of this discussion when I said 'padding on' I meant in the traditional French Polish way. And I had to use a mixture of dilute Royal Lac and walnut oil to get even close to the that traditional feel.

From what I understand it is not repairable in the traditional sense. A fresh layer of padded on Royal Lac will not melt into the existing finish. So that is a down side to the finish but on the upside it's more durable.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I had the same experience even diluted 50%, although it was much better. Though, funnily enough it worked just fine on the test panels of course.

I was thinking of adding oil, but I was very worried about the finish hardening on top of the oil and causing future problems. Looking forward to another delightful sanding session in the AM...

Might try a test panel with oil one day. I had really expected it to flow out smoothly rather than acting like quick drying syrup...
Author:  rlrhett [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I have use Royal Lac in a traditional FP application on a dozen guitars straight from the jar and minimal oil. Never had anything that even came close to “quick dry syrup”. Are we talking about the same product?


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Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
rlrhett wrote:
I have use Royal Lac in a traditional FP application on a dozen guitars straight from the jar and minimal oil. Never had anything that even came close to “quick dry syrup”. Are we talking about the same product?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, he's using the post cat royal lac.

edit: I meant no. . . :)
Author:  banjopicks [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
rlrhett didn't mention pre or post cat so we still don't know if it's the same.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I haven't had any problems with the regular Royal Lac. I've used Robbie O'brien's method as well as a more traditional FP approach. Both worked fine. Robbie's approach is good for laying down the early coats then I like to do more of a French polish towards the end, I think it looks better. Haven't tried the PC so good luck guys. I have received very helpful responses to my emails to Vijay when I had problems so you might try contacting him directly.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
Yes, Vijay has been helpful, as much as he can...
Author:  rlrhett [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
Bryan Bear wrote:
rlrhett wrote:
I have use Royal Lac in a traditional FP application on a dozen guitars straight from the jar and minimal oil. Never had anything that even came close to “quick dry syrup”. Are we talking about the same product?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, he's using the post cat royal lac.

edit: I meant no. . . :)


I see. I guess the question is why is the OP trying to pad on the post cat stuff? Isn’t that meant specifically to spray? Why not use the regular stuff that was meant for FP?


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Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
72hr to buffing...
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I had hoped to be able to pad it on to avoid spraying as I'm not set up for spraying.

However, the denatured alcohol fumes are intolerable to me, and it wasn't building up fast enough when diluted 50/50 so I bought a few prevail sprayers and now it's outside on the washing line.

Maybe it'll work out, lol!
Author:  rlrhett [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
meddlingfool wrote:
72hr to buffing...


Yeah, but FP is built in burnishing/buffing. Isn’t it? I am no finishing expert, but I do follow the Tom Bills course.

Honest question: should I be waiting more than 24hr between bodying/polishing/spiriting off? It is all one continuous process for me. Am I doing something I shouldn’t be?


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Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
I am definitely the wrong guy to ask, as I've never FP'd before.

I had anticipated being able to pad/wipe it on in a smooth wet coat like the polyurethane I use, but such is not the case. The video from the site made it look totally easy, but I did not have a matching experience. Need more practice. I might try the regular stuff to try a FP one day. I've got some, but I was hoping to get the job done without the 30 day wait...
Author:  Goodin [ Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
rlrhett wrote:
meddlingfool wrote:
72hr to buffing...


Yeah, but FP is built in burnishing/buffing. Isn’t it? I am no finishing expert, but I do follow the Tom Bills course.

Honest question: should I be waiting more than 24hr between bodying/polishing/spiriting off? It is all one continuous process for me. Am I doing something I shouldn’t be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



This is getting confusing because some people are talking about regular Royal Lac, and others talking about Royal Lac Post Cat. 72 hours to buffing refers to the recommended minimum time that RL POST CAT can be buffed after spraying the final coats. I wait five to seven days.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
Yes, this is all about PCRL. Although really no longer relevant as I've abandoned the idea of padding it on...
Author:  rlrhett [ Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone here padded on PC Royal Lac?
Goodin wrote:
rlrhett wrote:
meddlingfool wrote:
72hr to buffing...


Yeah, but FP is built in burnishing/buffing. Isn’t it? I am no finishing expert, but I do follow the Tom Bills course.

Honest question: should I be waiting more than 24hr between bodying/polishing/spiriting off? It is all one continuous process for me. Am I doing something I shouldn’t be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



This is getting confusing because some people are talking about regular Royal Lac, and others talking about Royal Lac Post Cat. 72 hours to buffing refers to the recommended minimum time that RL POST CAT can be buffed after spraying the final coats. I wait five to seven days.


Yes, but that quote is in reference to the question WHY use Post Cat to pad on in the first place.


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