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| Denatured alcoholic Canada... http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50861 |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Looking for the right stuff to use with post cat royal lac Internet shows that DNA is sometimes called ethanol but also methyl hydrate. Anyone know which of those is the correct stuff? Will 99.9% isopropyl, also a DNA work? |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Methyl hydrate is methanol which is a different alcohol molecule than ethanol. Not much different, but it's not the same. It's more toxic than ethanol. The stuff I buy here in the US is ethanol. It contains some methanol to discourage drinking because of the toxicity. EDIT: I looked up the MSDS on the denatured alcohol I buy and it turns out it can be anywhere from 40-60% methanol. Good to know. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Yes, fortunately we are protected by the government up here from buying, you know, alcohol, but instead we get to choose from a variety of toxic sludge instead... If you're in the states, why not just buy Everclear? |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Ed— As a Canadian, I think you can apply for a permit to buy pure ethyl alcohol: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/empl ... ase-permit In the states, if you are in or near a state that allows the sale of Everclear, that is much simpler than dealing with a permit, but I think we can get permits, too, depending on the state. I live in West Virginia, where Everclear is not sold, but it is sold in Kentucky, right next door. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
. . . And I should have added that I think it is totally worth the trouble and expense of working with pure ethyl alcohol instead of denatured. Denatured smells like it is bad for you, which it is. Everclear is a pleasure to be around. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
meddlingfool wrote: Yes, fortunately we are protected by the government up here from buying, you know, alcohol, but instead we get to choose from a variety of toxic sludge instead... If you're in the states, why not just buy Everclear? I could here in Washington, but it means finding a liquor store that carries it instead of just stopping in at the local hardware store and it costs about $20 for 750 mL versus about $4.25 per liter for the denatured alcohol. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Like Don said, you can apply for a permit. You’ll have to provide proof that you build guitars, and with be using it for finish work. Alex |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Kleen Strip Green SDS shows 80-90 % ethyl and greater than 5% methyl. Ethyl is cheaper to produce than methyl. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Clay S. wrote: Kleen Strip Green SDS shows 80-90 % ethyl and greater than 5% methyl. Ethyl is cheaper to produce than methyl. Thanks a bunch for that tip! I've been using the non-"Green" Klean Strip denatured alcohol. It turns out my local hardware store also carries the Green stuff so that's what I'll get next. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
If I pursue this shellac finish in future, I may get an everclear license, but...I need something like today! |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
If you are worried about the methyl, wear nitrile gloves and have a fan blowing the fumes away from you (or wear a respirator). Every time we pump gas we probably wind up huffing worse stuff. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Ed, I can get you a bottle of everclear to the VIGF if that works. I make frequent trips to Alberta where it is available in liquor stores. Think it was the best part of $40 for 750 ml. B |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Hi Bri, That would be awesome, we can knock a few back! Do you have a table? |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Is the table for drinking under? |
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| Author: | Bri [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
meddlingfool wrote: Hi Bri, That would be awesome, we can knock a few back! Do you have a table? No table for me, no interest in selling. Signed up for 3 seminars, going to check out the pros guitars and steal a few ideas. Maybe stock up on more wood or parts. I will bring a bottle along, see you there. B |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Sounds great, see ya then! |
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| Author: | kwerry [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
I've used 99.9% isopropyl with regular Royal Lac and post Cat, however I have only used Post Cat once so limited experience with it. Lee Valley sells (or sold) a DNA Shellac thinner. I've also found VJ at Shellac Finishes very responsive to questions. Kerry meddlingfool wrote: Looking for the right stuff to use with post cat royal lac
Internet shows that DNA is sometimes called ethanol but also methyl hydrate. Anyone know which of those is the correct stuff? Will 99.9% isopropyl, also a DNA work? |
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| Author: | ernie [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Ed the only place I remember seeing a denatured alcoholic canada was down on pain and wastings right next to gastown , no shortage of them back in the day, they would even buy grocery store products that had alcohol in them ! |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Ha! Yes, I know the area well... |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Many alcohols are sold in Canada as “denatured”, meaning they’ve been modified to be undrinkable, and thus used for other applications. The denaturing and the base alcohol vary tremendously and may vary with the production run, so too the toxicity. For shellac finishes, you likely want better stuff. You can buy 94% ethanol in some provinces and it’s quite drinkable: https://www.saq.com/page/en/saqcom/alcohol/global-94-/12209012?selectedIndex=2&searchContextId=-10021192942543 For others, you can always trust Lee Valley and also cheap, but I wouldn’t drink it: http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=20107&cat=1,190,42942 and they ship fast BTW, when I researched 2 years ago, Lee Valley was also the cheapest place to buy West System products. Yeah, surprised me too. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Every now and then they have a good price on something... |
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| Author: | Alain Lambert [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
I buy denaturated ethanol that they sell for burning in fireplace. It is mostly ethanol with a small % of propanol and ethyl acetate that make it smell not pleasant Bought the last in a hardware store for $5-6 a liter. |
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| Author: | gregorio [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Hello Ed, Although you seem to have arranged something with Bri, here are a couple other possibilities. This was recommended to me when I began the task to acquire materials for french polish..things sometimes arent that easy to find. Attachment: 20180801_204720.jpg Second option, which i will try next time, is if you know someone who works in a lab they can pretty much get you anything. My colleague told me to let him know the next time i need to order something. Easy peasy he says. Bare in mind I am no french polish pro by any means. Ive done it twice and i was happy with the results. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Gregor, I'm not sure, but I think that's the super toxic stuff. My immediate goal was to find something to use today (disaster) but ultimately it's to reduce the toxicity of the process. Pure old alcohol seems as close to that as can be... |
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| Author: | gregorio [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Denatured alcoholic Canada... |
Hey Ed, Your right, it's not good for you and all safety and handling precautions are implied. Now that you have me thinking about it, I should get on the ball and order some now and not wait until I'm looking for some. |
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