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luthiers and sheds
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Author:  ernie [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  luthiers and sheds
Doing a lot research on sheds would like a small shed 10-.12 by 16 , would like your thoughts and opinions , Planning to have dust collector and Large compressor. The shed will face one wall of my new 1200 sq ft shop, Thanks.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
The only thing I can come up with is add lots of ventilation. maybe a row of awning windows under the roof overhang. That would give you light and ventilation, and you could leave them open during rain.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
If you are putting your dust collector in the shed you might consider insulating it and putting a return air duct back into the shop. Insulating might not be that big of a deal - you might not loose (or gain) that many BTUs, but without returning the air back into the shop you might be heating (and cooling) the Great Outdoors.
On the other hand, compressors can generate some heat, so If you can box off a corner and have it vent to the outside in the summer you won't be heating the air returning from the D.C..
If it's a small compressor and D.C. all of the above may not be necessary. pizza
Author:  ernie [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
My current dc is a 2 hp Jet and 3 hp compressor an a backup 3hp portable compressor . I want to install a 5 hp oneida dc/ cyclone and at least a 7.5 hp vertical compressor, TNX
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
What exactly are you trying to figure out?
Author:  Bri [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
Mounting your DC in an outside space can cause a few issues. The 5 horse machine can exchange all the air in your 1200 sq ft shop in a matter of minutes. Unless you can vent it back in, you need some form of make up air. As Clay has said, lost btus and conditioned air. Should you be using a heat source that requires an exhaust(chimney) you can run the risk of backdrafting your appliance. No bueno!
My 2cents,
B
Author:  Haans [ Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
You might want a humidifier and dehumidifier if you plan on building instruments...
Author:  ernie [ Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
I have a really good dehumidifier in my current 1200 sq ft bsmt Probably will be too small I also have a large 220 v forced fan electric heater in our current 2 car garage ., My new location seems humid in spring and summer . I/m not exactly clear on how to go about this for a 1200 sq ft shop Any engineers out there ??. I was planning to lay down a concrete base and either build or assemble a small shed adjacent to the shop. . FWIW the area in winter seems more humid 40-50% humidity in Jan this year , we are 35 mi N of OKC ok. TNX for the replies
Author:  CarlD [ Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
Set up a filter system for the return air and make sure the shed roof is high enough for the DC. They can be 8'+ tall.
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
Is there a reason you are held to the 1200 sq. ft.? Could you go slightly larger and then wall off part of the shop for the D.C. and compressor? I guess there are advantages both ways....
Author:  bluescreek [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
seal and insulate use a good vapor barrier and you can control your RH . A small AC unit and dehumidifier will hold you for the summer a space heater and humidifier for winter
Author:  Ruby50 [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
Seal and insulate definitely, but the vapor barrier is a no-no in many climate. Results in the "motel syndrome" that causes condensation in the wrong place.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/15615490261/in/album-72157646344222304/

In this article, they talk about wallpaper coverings, but don't mention that they are always vinyl for washability - same permeability as a vapor barrier.

Air sealing can be a little tricky, so an amateur should always overdo it - seal anything that you can imagine might leak air in the exterior walls and top floor ceiling. Use caulk or the expanding foam from Home Cheapo and Blowe's

Ed
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
"Seal and insulate definitely, but the vapor barrier is a no-no in many climate."

Even too much "sealing " can be a bad thing over some soil types. Soils that were formed over granite can off gas radon which builds up if the structure is sealed too tight. My house is built near an abandoned granite quarry, so I didn't go to any great pains to seal every crack. I just burn a few more electrons.
Author:  ernie [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
I have 0 control over shop size the owners offer it is a package deal with the house we are building. Also I/m planning to lay down a concrete slab adjacent to the shop, and have the dc and compressor located there, I need some help with the dc ducting so I see that oneida has a service for their clients. I will do as much as I can to insulate the shop, But I will ask around the area to see how others have done it . Every area seems to have its own quirks. I want to thank all of you for putting out your ideas it is much appreciated!!
Author:  CarlD [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
ernie, another point about vapor barriers....make sure there is one under the slabs. My shop floors are a big source of high humidity levels even into the summer months when outside RH can be less than 20%.
Author:  ernie [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
Locally in KC Mo they just use gravel under the concrete slabs. Not sure what our builder is going to use in Guthrie OK , guessing its the same as here, Actually in our bsmt the RH drops to 25% in winter and its a real PITA listening to expensive exotics snap.I doubt the builder on this 25 yr old home ever put anything under the concrete ,In summer without the dehumidifier it goes up to 70% from april to sept
Author:  bluescreek [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
actually you need the thermal barrier more but depending on the insulation used a vapor barrier will help. In the old days they put in insulation right to the wall this is what contributes to the Motel air. Without the thermal barrier you build up condensation that will attribute to mold growth. Having air that can circulate between the outside wall and vent to the roof will help with keeping mold out of the insulation. The vapor barrier goes to the inside this helps to keep moisture from penetrating into the insulation. If you use Styrofoam that is its onw barrier but keep 3/4 off the outside wall and vent to the roof.
Author:  CarlD [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
At least a 6 mil poly barrier (clear or black) over the gravel before you pour the concrete is what is needed. The ground moisture will percolate through the floor if you don't.
Author:  bluescreek [ Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
I was informed that the codes changed and they no longer suggest doing it the way I did so thanks for the education glad to learn something.

have fun planning the new shed.
Insulate the floor your feet will love you for it.

What about the spray insulation ??? I had a crawl space sprayed 3 years ago. Nice and warm and not damp or cold. The insulation is open to air
thanks again for the education. ( only about 1 in thick, One of the posters here is very up on this and he PMed me ( much appreciated ) and taught me a few things. I will use that info on the new building I plan to put up
Author:  ernie [ Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
I also will have a new 3 car garage, 45 ft from the shop. since it will be insulated, I will use a small space as a finishing area. and dead storage of lumber. plus the attic above. Do not want to use the main shop as part of my spray system . There is way too much minute dust particles floating in the air to make part of that 1200 sq ft area viable , even sealing off a seperate spray booth is very dicey an problematic IMHO. Going to look at the shops concrete pad to layout a seperate shed for the new Oneida and vertical compressor . Spoke to oneida yesterday , am very impressed with all the services offered expensive yes but worth it !
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
CarlD wrote:
At least a 6 mil poly barrier (clear or black) over the gravel before you pour the concrete is what is needed. The ground moisture will percolate through the floor if you don't.

This is a must. Otherwise your floor will be a source of humidity in the shop year round, more so during rainy periods. Keep in mind building code requires a barrier under slabs in living areas, but not in storage or garage areas. Your builder should be able to include it for very little cost.

The exterior walls should be insulated and wrapped in something like tyvek house wrap. You will still need some outside air ventilation. If you dehumidify then normal leaks like around doors and window should do it.
Author:  JasonMoe [ Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: luthiers and sheds
I do most of my work in that space, but also have a sealed storage room 5X6' for my wood hoard and extra parts etc. I live north of you in southern WI and humidity and temps change so much. The winter it gets really dry. Summer sometimes humid. Right now it's 45%. Pretty decent for july. Typically I like to do my bracing on acoustics around 40 down to 35%. If my city allowed it, I would build another shed in my home like what you are talking about. I would run a window air unit and next to it an outside air vent fan with a filter in front; possibly double use as a spray booth type thing. Small heater and humidifier in the winter. I heat my shed with wood pellets in the winter. I got a 40X30' shop insulated with a window air conditioner. A few times in the winter it gets really dry and I dump water on my floor to boost up the RH%.
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