Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - radius dish in sketchup

This thread perked my interest. I personally don't use the radius dish. But just out of interest or perhaps challenge, I thought I would try to model one and create the tool path. I use rhino cad.

It took me about 30 minutes including the tool path. I think it would be a five minute operation The next time.

Basically what I did was create a 25 foot sphere and attach a point to the edge. Next I measured down from that about a half an inch and created a line. I extruded the line 24 x 24". And created a surface. I then extruded this surface 0.75 inches.
So now I have a square that is 0.75 inches thick and 24 x 24". This represents my stock.
In rhino you can subtract one object from the other. This operation is called a Boolean.
I subtracted the sphere from the rectangle.

This left me with The blank with a 25 foot surface.

I then selected this and created a tool path. Are used a planner surfacing and a half inch ball mill with a close step over. The tool path took a little under one hour of cutting time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:	banjopicks [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:06 am ]
Post subject:	radius dish in sketchup
I'm trying to create these in sketchup but not having a lot of luck yet. I have a friend with a CNC to build them for me but I need a drawing. I know I'll figure it out in time but was hoping someone here has already gone through the process and could help me.

Author:	Colin North [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Don't know, but maybe this may help http://birdwire.net/boaw/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/bowrad5292018.pdf

Author:	banjopicks [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Thanks for this. Will be helpful if I want to make them myself but I really want to do it in sketchup. I can make a sphere or dome but I'm just having trouble figuring out how to slice off what I want. Then I imagine it's just an export to dxf to send to my friend.

Author:	Colin North [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Fast way is to use a screenshot of the pdf content as an imported image into sketchup, then export as a dxf.

Author:	banjopicks [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Is that all he needs is a 2D flat drawing? I thought he would need a 3D image. That's great if it's all he needs.

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radius dish in sketchup http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50780	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Colin North [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Hmm, not so sure - expert opinion needed....

Author:	Tim L [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
What is he using a CNC Mill or a CNC Lathe? If he can swing the diameter of the dish on a lathe that would be the simplest and most accurate way to make one. If he is going to make it on a mill he will probably need a 4th axis. As far as the drawing you should be able to call it out as a spherical radius. Hopefully he has a some sort of CAM software that he uses. Try giving him a 2d drawing with dimensions and call the radius out as a spherical radius and see what he says. That will be easy to draw and if he needs more you will still have the basics. Usually there will be an exploded view that is a cross section showing the radius on the cutaway section and from where it was taken. Usually lined and tagged with an !____! or some identifying letter ( vertical marks s/b arrows ) and the A should be under the arrow. A A

Author:	DennisK [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Make sphere with desired radius, make cylinder 1" tall and diameter 1" larger than you want the dished area. Use the equation here http://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/sag.htm to calculate the saggita for the radius and dished area diameter, and set the sphere y position to radius + half inch - saggita. Then boolean the two of them. Not sure if CNC needs a slice of the sphere (intersect sphere and cylinder) or a model of the dish exactly as you want the final product (subtract sphere from cylinder).

Author:	banjopicks [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
The guy has a 4 axis CNC with the lathe. He doesn't really know how to use it yet. He's just learning. He's got the flat stuff down pretty good. I'm going to see if I can get a copy of his software so I can help him and get a better understanding. Thanks Dennis and Tim. That gives me something to mess with over the weekend.

Author:	arie [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
here's code for a generic fanuc type control -haas, fadal, etc... no 4th needed. stick the board down to the table and center it. G54 Z0. is taken from the top of the board. the program assumes a 25ft radius on a 2ft dia. dish (typical) since none was specified and uses a .75 diameter ball endmill. edit feeds and speeds as desired. the program has a local subroutine -hence the M98/M99. also, make sure the control has program rotation enabled hence the G68/G69 basically, the arc was drawn in the front plane and the toolpath is rotated about center every one degree from the top plane. G68 begins the rotation about X0., Y0. and the increment is defined as R-1. the program starts from left 180 and moves CCW a full 360 degrees. enjoy! % O1234 N100 G20 N110 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90 N120 T1 M6 N130 G0 G90 G54 X-11.9705 Y0. A0. S1528 M3 N140 G43 H1 Z.4889 N150 Z.4389 N160 G1 Z.2389 F30.56 N170 G18 G2 X0. Z0. I11.9705 K299.7611 N180 X11.9904 Z.2397 I0. K300. 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Author:	Ruby50 [ Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Always wondered why no one created a table of dimensions using the sagitta formula. Like the highest point of an arc from the center of a chord that is, say, 24" long for a series of diameters. Then all you need to do is use that sagitta, or offset, and this method to construct an arc in a hurry https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/9566635434/in/album-72157635172644427/ Ed

Author:	Joe Beaver [ Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Now I remember why CNC is not for me.

Author:	surveyor [ Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
I like Ed's use of the old carpenter trick (long curve) to layout the curve. Ed , there are tables of "sagitta" know as the "external" for a simple curve in back of every surveyor's field book I ever bought. Didn't think I would run into that building guitars. Also, having been around and owning a lathe, I wouldn't recommend spinning a 24", 1" thick plate on a vertical plane fast enough to cut out a radius. I made my own dishes with a simple sled and a router. It was kind of messy cause I used MDF, but was fun. It only took about 45min/per dish.

Author:	Ken McKay [ Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	radius dish in sketchup
This thread perked my interest. I personally don't use the radius dish. But just out of interest or perhaps challenge, I thought I would try to model one and create the tool path. I use rhino cad. It took me about 30 minutes including the tool path. I think it would be a five minute operation The next time. Basically what I did was create a 25 foot sphere and attach a point to the edge. Next I measured down from that about a half an inch and created a line. I extruded the line 24 x 24". And created a surface. I then extruded this surface 0.75 inches. So now I have a square that is 0.75 inches thick and 24 x 24". This represents my stock. In rhino you can subtract one object from the other. This operation is called a Boolean. I subtracted the sphere from the rectangle. This left me with The blank with a 25 foot surface. I then selected this and created a tool path. Are used a planner surfacing and a half inch ball mill with a close step over. The tool path took a little under one hour of cutting time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Author:	arie [ Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
Ken McKay wrote: This thread perked my interest. I personally don't use the radius dish. But just out of interest or perhaps challenge, I thought I would try to model one and create the tool path. I use rhino cad. It took me about 30 minutes including the tool path. I think it would be a five minute operation The next time. Basically what I did was create a 25 foot sphere and attach a point to the edge. Next I measured down from that about a half an inch and created a line. I extruded the line 24 x 24". And created a surface. I then extruded this surface 0.75 inches. So now I have a square that is 0.75 inches thick and 24 x 24". This represents my stock. In rhino you can subtract one object from the other. This operation is called a Boolean. I subtracted the sphere from the rectangle. This left me with The blank with a 25 foot surface. I then selected this and created a tool path. Are used a planner surfacing and a half inch ball mill with a close step over. The tool path took a little under one hour of cutting time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Boolean subtract -perfect! I used Mastercam 2018 and made a 2d sketch in wireframe. Basically created a 24" x 1" front plane rectangle. Then I made a 3 point curve picking the two topmost corners of the curve and dragging the center point to a 300" (25') radius. Toolpath again was wireframe/2d contour. Made the toolpath and chose transform/rotate using the sub-routine option. Posted the code and done. Old habit using wireframe toolpaths picked up in the mid 80's when machine control memory was like 4MB and DNC'ing tons of code was horrible. Makes simple programming (without model creation btw,) so much faster ime.

Author:	Andy Birko [ Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
This should be easy if sketchup has a revolve feature. Imagine slicing the radius dish in half. Now model half of the section and do a revolve around the center. Shouldn't take more than a minute (assuming sketchup has a revolve)

Author:	Andy Birko [ Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: radius dish in sketchup
like this.... (it's not centered on the origin because of some silliness in F360 - I'm not 100% up to speed with this software yet but it was the quickest way to illustrate)