This is a dreadnaught I built from a oak table I found thrown away. I think it was red oak. Used vinegar with rusty nails, steel wool, and whatever had rust for the "ebonized" finish.
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| Red Oak and Ebonizing... http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50752 |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I am helping my friend and neighbor to build a guitar. He works with wood and has a large cash of red oak that he wants to use. We picked out some nicely quartered boards for B&S. The sides bent nicely and are in a L-00 mold. He asked about using red oak for a fingerboard and bridge. I had seen recently where white oak was ebonized and used for a fingerboard and bridge and thought I would ask you guys what you thought about using red oak for a fingerboard and bridge. Also, I understand that to ebonize wood you use in a solution of vinegar that has had steel wool dissolved in it. Is there a formula for the amount of steel wool to vinegar? How is the solution applied? ...brushing? ...soaking? ...how long? So, 1) red oak for fingerboard and bridge...? and 2) ebonizing process steps...? Thanks, Steve |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I just found this article... https://www.popularwoodworking.com/tech ... izing_wood |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I'm not sure that red oak has the tannin content that white oak does. It's the tannin's that react with the iron to color it black. It's not really a stain per se but a chemical reaction. |
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
Hey Steve, You can use red oak for the fingerboard and bridge if you don't mind the huge pores. Red oak takes to ebonizing better than most other woods. Just make up your vinegar steel wool solution (I use one 0000 pad to one pint white vinegar) and brush it on. The reaction will start in seconds. As the author of that article you linked to pointed out, the color is not really black. I've gotten blues, reds, greens and other hints of color depending on the piece of wood. I think this may have something to do with mineral content of the tree or the soil it grew in but I'm no expert on that stuff. Most of my ebonized pieces have been furniture which are finished with a satin clear. The color effect is diminished greatly with the use of both solvent based and water based clears. The finish looks black in all but direct light and I enjoy the flashes of color as it gives the piece another subtle dimension. The authors Q-bark tea process for a deeper black works very well and would be my choice for a finger board or bridge. Just remember, the beauty in this finish is only skin deep so any wear or damage will show the raw wood. Repairs are super easy so I would rate that a minor concern. Steve |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I/ve used a black NGR stain on red oak , it has a bluish cast. For native wood fingerboards, that can be dyed we use persimmon and osage orange, and locust, which can all be dyed. I would keep an eye on that vinegar /steel wool soloution and leave it outside at this time of the year , you can also substitute the vinegar soloution for an oil based ebony stain from minwax , but it will give a more ol timey look to the wood IMHO |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
In my experience red oak responds well to this treatment. Any grey or bluish cast you might get should go away when you oil the board. Test some red oak scrap, you will likely be able to skip the steps to add tannin and go straight to the iron acetate. Remember that you will need to do the ebonizing to the final surface as it doesn't penetrate very deep and in time the black layer of wood on a fretboard will wear away in spots. I just stuck one pad of steel wool in a gallon jug of vinegar from the dollar store and have been using it for years. You don't need to worry too much about the recipe. . . |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I would be wary of an oak fret board unless it is finished ala Fender...... Reason being IME oak is more prone to raise splinters than anything we normally would use for a FB. |
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| Author: | printer2 [ Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I used white oak for a fretboard, pore filled with CA. No issues with it. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I've done the iron acetate solution on oak fretboards and it works well although it only strikes to a minimal depth. That may or may not be a problem. If you pore fill as well it can be very difficult to distinguish it from ebony - at least from a distance of a few feet. I've also tried soaking walnut 2 mm thick bandings in the solution for a few weeks and the black colour goes very deep, virtually full depth. I'm trying the same with an oak fretboard finished to dimensions. I doubt it will penetrate deep but 0.5 mm or so will be sufficient. |
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| Author: | surveyor [ Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
This is a dreadnaught I built from a oak table I found thrown away. I think it was red oak. Used vinegar with rusty nails, steel wool, and whatever had rust for the "ebonized" finish.
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| Author: | surveyor [ Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
Also, I put the rusty stuff in a jar with the vinegar covering it by a couple of inches. DON'T seal the jar. poke some holes in the lid to let off the gas and leave outside for a few days, then, with rubber gloves, just rub on a test piece to see what you've got. |
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| Author: | Bob Shanklin [ Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
You can add tannin to any wood that you want to ebonize. Get yourself some Quebracho bark extract from any taxidermy supply and mix up a tea and brush a few wet coats into the wood, then when dry, brush on your vinegaroon solution . Presto-chango, ebonized wood. I got my extract from https://www.vandykestaxidermy.com/BKT10-P3852.aspx. Good article on the using the bark extract here, https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/ebonizing_wood. Works really well, and total penetration as it is a chemical change, and not a dye. Bob ps. If you use steel-wool to make your vinegaroon solution, wash it well in soapy water first. Steel wool is coated with fine oil when new. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
I made the mistake of leaving a plane laying down on freshly planed red oak overnight. Came back the next day - and I found a beautiful black imprint of the plane on the board....  .
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
truckjohn wrote: I made the mistake of leaving a plane laying down on freshly planed red oak overnight. Came back the next day - and I found a beautiful black imprint of the plane on the board.... .I switched from steel pipe clamps for panel glue ups to aluminum because of the blue stain on oak from glue squeeze out reaction. Alex |
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| Author: | Bob Shanklin [ Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
Alex, did you use any of the Quebracho bark extract I gave you last fall at the Exotic Woods Guitar Day? Bob |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Red Oak and Ebonizing... |
Bob Shanklin wrote: Alex, did you use any of the Quebracho bark extract I gave you last fall at the Exotic Woods Guitar Day? Bob Not yet, Bob, but I was thinking about doing some test pieces when I get a lull (ha!) in the action. I'm going to treat some Q sawn white oak with Quebracho, and then apply some household strength ammonia to see what happens. I'm hoping for a dark, fumed look, that will go deep into the wood. Of course, I might get a green colour, instead! I'll report on any results! Alex |
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