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Jointer size for guitar building
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Author:  banjopicks [ Mon May 21, 2018 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Jointer size for guitar building
I've been shopping for used jointers and I'm undecided on a minimum size for my shop. I've never owned one but I've decided it will be among the first purchases for my new shop. I'm assuming 1/2 the width of a jumbo guitar would be nice but is it necessary? I think a 4" inch would be fine for necks but I'm think 6" minimum as they aren't that much used.
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon May 21, 2018 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
My opinion:

A jointer can be useful for getting good edges on guitar woods, but not all that useful for getting good faces on that wood. Either hand planing or abrasive planing is the way to go to get faces on tops, backs and sides the way you want them.

So, if you work from the assumption that a jointer is only useful for edges, is it worth having one? Guitar factories use them, for sure. But I don't own one, because I can do what a jointer does with other tools. If I ever have unlimited space, maybe I will get one, but with my limited space, I don't miss having one.
Author:  dofthesea [ Mon May 21, 2018 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
Depends on what kind of guitars you'll be building. I build a lot of electrics so a jointer comes in very handy. If only for acoustics 9 out of 10 luthiers get by without a jointer . Go with 6" and try and get one with a helical cutter head makes all the difference in the world.
Author:  jshelton [ Mon May 21, 2018 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
banjopicks wrote:
I've been shopping for used jointers and I'm undecided on a minimum size for my shop. I've never owned one but I've decided it will be among the first purchases for my new shop. I'm assuming 1/2 the width of a jumbo guitar would be nice but is it necessary? I think a 4" inch would be fine for necks but I'm think 6" minimum as they aren't that much used.

If you can find one, buy an older American brand like Delta or Powermatic, that way the cast iron is cured (no warping). Get the longest bed you can afford, 6" wide is good 8" is better. If you can find a machine shop with the proper equipment have the beds and fence surface ground so they're absolutely flat. It's worth every penny it costs. A good jointer is a wonderful tool for every kind of woodworking.
I forgot to mention, I made an appliance for my 12" planer that allows me to joint billets of wood that are way too big for my jointer. It allows me to flatten billets for resawing. It's invaluable, if the resaw runs off a bit, no problem I just joint the billet on my planer/jointer and start fresh on the next cut. This summer I plan to cut some thin slices off a Cocobolo plank that I bought about 30 years ago and laminate them with some very old Port Orford Cedar for sides then make a double back of Port Orford/nomex/Cocobolo for a deep bodied passive body classic.
Author:  jac68984 [ Mon May 21, 2018 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
If you process your own wood from logs or rough billets, a 12 inch jointer is the bees knees. Can you get by with hand planes, sure, but it’s a workout and entails a significantly larger time investment.

If you buy stock close to thickness, a nice 6 inch jointer is much cheaper and very handy for face planing neck blanks and quickly cutting two square reference faces, in addition to common edge joining work. An 8 inch jointer is nice if you do other woodworking besides guitar work and don’t want to spend money or have the space for a 12 inch jointer.


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Author:  J De Rocher [ Mon May 21, 2018 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
My jointer is 6" wide and 36" long and I consider that to be perfect for my needs. A 4" jointer would be too narrow. Mine is an old Craftsman jointer made in the 1950s and it works great. I got it for $100 off Craigslist from a woodworker who had kept it in good condition. The main use I have for it is jointing neck blanks which I consider essential for building building necks, at least for how I do it. It gets used for a number of other things as well.

I don't know what your experience is with working with jointers, but if it is limited you will need to learn about using one safely. They can do a lot of permanent damage in the blink of an eye if not used correctly. They can also launch things with a lot of force. A builder I know ended up with a neck blank stuck into a wall about 10' from the jointer.
Author:  Bri [ Mon May 21, 2018 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
Hutch, I have a couple of jointers and in respect to guitar construction they are likely the least used pieces of machinery. The usefulness will depend on how you source your wood. If you are buying b&s sets and neck blanks the cost and space is likely not worth it. If I were to begin to equip a shop for luthiery, knowing what I know now, the first items of machinery would be a good bandsaw and a thickness sander. I use to think I could not function in a shop without a tablesaw, but for guitars the bandsaw is quite sufficient.
The jointer is great if you are processing lumber, and if you have the budget, but I think other items should come first.
A lot of people have been frustrated by jointers which have not been set up properly. A jointer will not work if the beds are not perfectly parallel. Some cheaper machines have no allowance for adjustment, so beware if you are buying used. A long straight edge is a must for setup. As with all tools, buy the best you can afford.

B
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon May 21, 2018 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I've always felt I can build instruments without one and a thickness sander is high on my list. After reading this I'm rethinking my first machine now
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Mon May 21, 2018 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
Although most shop accidents happen on table saws (because there are so many of them), and radial arm saws are the most likely to cause an accident, joiners and shapers do the most damage when they bite. At least with the saws you can re-attach things, and they might even work. In carpentry school in the Navy, when we got to the joiner the instructor said that the problem comes from pushing things through with your hands. You've got your left hand over the cuter head to hold the wood down, and your right thumb is hooked over the back end of the board to push it through. When the machine kicks back, it folds your right thumb back against your arm, and breaks it, and your left hand goes down into the cutter, so you don't know which one to suck on. I think of that every time I walk up to the joiner. Then I pick up the hold down and push stick. So far, so good: I've been using the joiner for over forty years, and can still count to ten with my shoes on.

I have a 6" machine, and wish it was an 8".
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon May 21, 2018 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I have an older 6" Bridgewood jointer. I think it is a Taiwanese knock off of the Powermatic. I do all sorts of work with it in addition to jointing backs and tops. I use it to taper necks and fingerboards, rough trim sides to profile, flush up peghead overlays to pegheads, chamfer neck and end blocks, smooth a face to go against a resaw fence, etc. I find it to be a very useful tool.
For lutherie work a 6" stand alone jointer has done everything I needed it to do. Don't buy a short light weight bench top model. A good quality eight inch jointer would be nice to have and would be better for general woodworking, but 6" is good enough for guitar building.
I think as we rely more on domestic woods for guitar building, processing out own back and side sets will become more attractive, and a jointer more useful. A book that explains all the things you can do with a jointer and how to do them safely would be a good investment.
And to Al's point, I can count to 9 and 7/8ths. oops_sign
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon May 21, 2018 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I've already had the jointer accident many years ago on a borrowed one. No push tools and the blades were dull and no experience. It was an accident waiting to happen. Just lost the very tip and the doctor replaced it with a piece from my wrist. I will never go near one again with out the proper push tools.
Author:  ernie [ Mon May 21, 2018 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
bought a chiu = ting tAIWANESE 8IN JOINTER 31 yrs ago , IT/S industrial strength has a baldor 2 hp motor . Buy my stock from a mill so it is very handy.I keep 2 push blocks handy all the time
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Mon May 21, 2018 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
If you have a wide drum sander or a planer you can make a face jointing sled to put wide boards through instead of having to use a wide jointer. Putting a both sides warped uneven board through a planer or wide sander results in a smooth, warped and crooked board.
https://www.google.com/search?q=face+jointing+sled&rlz=1C1AVNE_enUS672US672&oq=face+jointing+sled&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64l2&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Author:  Haans [ Mon May 21, 2018 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I had a 6" jointer, but didn't use it much. Bandsaw, 12" disc and 6x89" edge sander did all the truing up and of course thickness sander. Had a darn good cyclone dust collector to take care of the dust and of course, air scrubbers and downdraft sanding table...
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Mon May 21, 2018 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I have an old 4" rockwell joiner that I used quite a bit for general wood working. (and YES, Alan is right on, ALWAYS USE PUSH STICKS) I have yet to use it for guitars but I recently bought a set of blades and plan to get it setup after years on inuse.

I find using planes and shooting boards for joining plates a pain. I'm thinking a pass on a joiner followed by a couple strokes on sandpaper (I do it by putting the paper on my table saw and then holding the wood flush against the fence to get a square surface would do it.)

As far as joiners go, if you can do it I'd get a 6". They usually have better adjustments and smoother operation than a 4" entry level machine.

I've never operated one but I've heard than an Oscillating Edge Sander would do the job better for guitar projects. It might be worth considering.
Author:  bionta [ Mon May 21, 2018 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Jointer size for guitar building
I have a combination jointer/planer that works well for me but only because I process rough stock. It’s a Robland machine, 12” wide, that uses the same cutter head for jointer and planer. It’s on wheels and stores beneath a tall bench.

I’m not highly skilled with the bandsaw so I find the wide jointer to be very valuable when resawing. I face-joint the board, take a slice off with the bandsaw and often find it necessary to face joint again before taking the next slice. Wastes some wood but the resulting thin pieces are flat and smooth.

If I had to give up a machine to fit into a smaller shop or something like that, I’d give up the jointer/planer and/or the tablesaw. The bandsaw, thickness sander, router, and belt sander all seem to get more mileage lately.


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Author:  Woodie G [ Mon May 21, 2018 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
We use the 8" x 76" helical head jointer for edge and face jointing - for billets that have wind or bow, the jointer is the right stationary tool to generate a flat reference surface for planing or resawing. A 6" jointer is too narrow and usually too short to work larger stock, but if resawing is not something in your future, is long enough to handle any stock already broken down to project length.

If buying used, whether 6" or 8", consider conversion to a helical head - the Byrd SHELIX is one with a very good reputation and is affordable - especially when on sale through Grizzly. Performance with the helical head is impressive - especially on abrasive woods or figured stock.
Author:  Tim L [ Mon May 21, 2018 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I have a 6" Powermatic. I use it for fixtures and necks. That's about it.

I also have an edge sander like the one Joe Beaver shows, but doubt it is oscillating. I do use it all the time on almost everything.
Author:  Haans [ Tue May 22, 2018 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
My 6x89 was an old Powermatic (Chinese) and non-oscillating. It was one of my most used power tools. I suppose the oscillating saves a little on belts, but I used to keep several belts of various use, and switched belts depending on what I was doing. Some had some pretty good burn marks and buildup, but were still good for certain things. I had a belt that was for fingerboards and straightening necks that was never used for anything else, looked brand new all the time.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue May 22, 2018 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I got very excited about finally getting a jointer. Went from the 400$ model all the way up to the 1200$ granite bed version. I wanted it for jointing tops more than anything else.

It now resides under a pile of junk in the garage after the last shop mod.

Not enough use for the real estate it used...
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue May 22, 2018 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I got rid of my larger jointer and got a Cutech 6" bench jointer with a helical cutting head. I'm not interested in doing resaw work and the smaller jointer does a good job on anything less than 36" long. I primarily use it to flatten necks and generate a reference surface for cutting short (under 36") stock, like bindings, on the table saw.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue May 22, 2018 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
To those who have a jointer but don't use it much, I would suggest you study up on them to see the many things they can do. They aren't necessary for guitar building, but can be very useful if you know what they are capable of.
To those who don't own one, and don't feel the need for one, that's good too. A well tuned hand plane can do many of the things a jointer can. A well tuned hand plane can eliminate the need for a power planer and a thickness sander. It just takes more time and skill on the part of the operator.
Author:  Aaron O [ Tue May 22, 2018 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
I have an OLD 6" Rockwell that was gifted to me. Once I swapped out the blades and set it up properly I have WAY more accurate cuts - I used to use it to joint plates.

Now I use it for 2 things, squaring stock to resaw, and necks.

I guess I could do it on my shooting board, but that's where I now joint plates.

If you have a need, get one and put it against a wall to minimize space. I have my drum sander in front of it and roll it out of the way when I need it. It doesn't see enough use to warrant the cost, but it does for what I got it for.
Author:  Brad Goodman [ Wed May 23, 2018 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Jointer size for guitar building
I couldn't live without my 12" (84" bed) S.A. Woods jointer from 1899.

I use it all the time for jointing tops and backs, facing neck and head surfaces and truing archtop plates etc.

I really need the 12" width for jointing the 9" plates for my 18" archtop model.

I also do cabinet/Architectural millwork and of course it is indispensable for those tasks as well.

It will do a perfect 8 foot long glue joint.......I guess I could make a pretty big guitar!

Here she is:

Image
Author:  jshelton [ Wed May 23, 2018 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jointer size for guitar building
Wow! I would love to have that machine.
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