Official Luthiers Forum!

Having seen a customer fired recently (the second in the decade, in that shop), I am curious as the criteria and methods employed by other repair shops in making this decision.

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

Since you bring it up, I am curious as to what criteria and methods your shop uses. Since I rarely take on repair work my "method" is to convince the person to take the job elsewhere if I don't want to work on the instrument or with the person. As a private person I don't have to worry about who I may or may not want to bake a cake for.

In my early days, I would quote a ridiculous price to get them to leave. If they said YES, then I made money.

Later on, I simply told them I'd rather not, or I was too busy, or bring it back in a couple months.

By the time I closed the doors of my retail space, I simply told them to "GTFO, I had too much business already".

Now I just say "NO, I'm retired and can do what I want".

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I was specifically speaking to the person, rather than the repair. To refine the question, when do you - as a repair shop - simply refuse to accept payment and hand the repaired instrument back to the owner with best wishes and your apologies for not being able to support their needs in the future?

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

In this case - it's more about the person rather than the job... You are rejecting a perpetual fraudster/grinder/time waster/never happy with any standard of work/drives scope creep forever with no hope of pay....

It's typically not the nice guy who pays his bills and just brings the occasional oddball... It's the guy who brings you impossible jobs while forever badmouthing everybody and then grinding you on your bill, etc.... The one who tries to conceal damage or lie to you about same in hopes of trapping you into doing thousands of dollars of work for free - then forcing you into buying the instrument off them... The endless death marches and attendent accusation against you for how much actual work costs..... Calling 20x per day every day on a job quoted for 4-6 weeks lead time, etc....

You are dealing with the public, and there's no single policy to follow about it. After all, we are supposedly cultivating personal relationships with our clients. Some are great, some aren't. Deal accordingly. Do not fear the threat of poormouthing from an angry client. If you are any good, the local community of players will know the score and keep coming to you. If said idiot client's friends disappear - you didn't need their business anyway. I've never regretted telling clients to hit the road. I have regretted doing work against my better judgement.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I had 1 client named X who had a fret job done on his elec gtr. .Then complained the action was way off. When he returned the instrument, it was obvious to me that he had altered the neck , and either he or someone else had messed with the neck on the solid body. He insisted that it was my fault. To appease him , I offered to reimburse him for half the value of the repair. He insisted on full repayment. I decided not to repay him. This happened 25 years ago in a full service shop in a large metro area. After that I never worked on electrics again. I had another painful lesson when a local school district reneged on the payment of 2600 $ us for working on many vln family instruments and bows. They sent a head honcho who offered $1600. or 1000 dollars less this was 26years ago . Lesson , never accept school beat up instruments unless they pay cash and up front , before any work is done !!! My 2 cents. I/ve had 1 client who wanted to arm wrestle me for the cost 0f a vln that was on sale for 1k he threw 500$ at me and I refused , after grinding me for 1/2 hr he left. Next week I sold it for full price. Patience and psychology are the best ways to deal with troublesome clients.

How about the clod that comes in with a traiwreck guitar that he got a good deal on at a garage sale and wants you to do the minimum repairs (read cheapest) so he can resell it.

"That's a nice guitar, hope you can repair it"

I haven't ever "fired" someone but I have told them that they need to do business elsewhere. Call me harsh, but if a guy wants a neck reset on something like a Martin X series I usually tell them that they make good pots for flowers and vegetables.

There are ways to deal with people like the ones described here. The trick is to never invest emotionally in what they think, otherwise you'll kill yourself with needless drama and bills. Essentially the DILLIGAF principle applies.

Worse is the guy who wants you to teach him how to do the repair and loan him the tools to do it.
(the unmitigated gall of some people!)

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

chris that technical word you quoted is chutzpah !

I do not have a "wall of fame" but I have a list of persona non grata This is business.... But in the end it is a people business. I may work on guitars but the job is dealing with the person on the other side of that guitar..... That's what I get paid for most days.

Each case is handled on an as needed basis, no too jerks are quite the same. The mild end of the spectrum is "Sorry, I can't help you...." in the case of the small jerk with lots of friends. Then there is the top shelf jerk who for what ever reason ( telling me how to run my shop, yelling at me, physical intimidation..... yep all happened!) gets told point blank " Here's your crap, take it, get out, never come back, loose my number!". Have not had to call the police yet but have seen the potential for that need in one interaction.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I renecked and refinished a Gibson J-45 back in the mid-80's. I had problems with the finish during the winter, and the guy got antsy. He called one day and told me his guitar better be ready by such and such a Friday at 5PM, or he'd KILL ME. He was a big scary dude and I believed him! I got it done about 4:55 that Friday, he paid without a word, and I collapsed in a sweaty heap. Saw the guitar at Guitar Center about 6 months ago. It still looked great, played well, and sounded like a million bucks. He was nowhere in sight.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

After having dealings with the public for over 40 years, in areas other than luthierie, the old George Carlin quote comes to mind: George Carlin — ‘Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.’

Maybe you should be really exclusive and have people apply to be a customer by providing references at a minimum

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

While that made me laugh, Mr. Watts, that IS close to what we get by relying on referrals versus any advertising...as luthiers of last resort, we have an effective filter in place to address string changes, pickup swaps, and the other common chores that - while moneymakers - are just not that interesting. We also tend to get a heads-up on problem customers and are seldom surprised on that front. Even then, we can see one or two customers slip past that filter...

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

So it sounds like the real admonition here is that in the general case - you should maintain an "Arms length" relationship with clients.. The business is the business... And within that "Arms length" standard - of course you try to maintain a good bedside manner.... There may be some clients you choose to go further into some sort of "relationship" with - say a "horse trader" who brings you 3 guitars a week or a music store owner...

But for the most part "Arms length" solves so many of these "problems"... This way you can turn away business that is not good for you without too much remorse... And you can turn away problem clients.... Because business is business - and this business is guitar repair... Not arm wrestling championship... And it's not a phone help desk customer service chat line... It's not the local pub...

If I had to do it all over again, I would have installed a dutch door between my shop and the music store I served. That would have served as a mental and physical barrier. Part of the reason I closed my shop was all the players (mostly kids) who were hanging out during business hours, and just distracting me from my work. Add 3 phone lines, and UPS guys asking for signatures - some days got pretty crazy.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince