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| Old Brown Glue http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50491 |
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| Author: | Bob Orr [ Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Old Brown Glue |
Hi just read a review about Old Brown Glue (room temperature animal glue) in Furniture and Cabinet Making magazine. Anyone used this for a build? What is clamping time and how long do you need to leave it before putting anything under stress? Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
Bob-- I use the equivalent of Old Brown Glue here and there. By that I mean: Old Brown Glue is just regular hot hide glue with urea added in to keep it liquid at room temperature. I add urea to my hot hide glue to extend the working time for some tasks. So, I pretty much use Old Brown Glue, only I use it really fresh, and I go ahead and heat it anyway, despite the idea that it stays liquid at room temperature. It works better when slightly warmed, and while it does have a shelf life, you don't want to use it if it has gone bad. No offense to the guy who makes and sells it, but you don't need to buy it. Just make your own. You will be better off, both financially and from the standpoint of making sure the glue is good. I usually let hide glue joints dry overnight before I release the clamps. There are exceptions; I might clamp something up early in the day and then let it go later in the day. If I am using regular hide glue, there's no problem doing that. But for hide glue that has urea in it, I would wait longer, and keep it clamped up overnight. Really, I think Old Brown Glue gets some negative comments here and there because folks try to use it the same way they use Titebond: straight out of the bottle, cold. I think it is better to just treat it like hot hide glue that you don't have to rush to keep from gelling on you. Use it warm, make sure it is fresh enough, and it will work just like hot hide glue, because that's what it is. If you try to use it just like Titebond, I think something about it will disappoint you. Just my opinion. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
I've used it some, bindings in particular, no problems. It's recommended to use it hot like regular hide glue. I'll also add a little to fresh HHG just to increase the working time some. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
I've used Titebond Hide Glue from time to time. Sticky stuff, gotta work quick. It works well. |
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| Author: | BobHowell [ Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
I looked for urea but was directed to mixture with components I didn't like. What are you using as additive? Where do you find it? |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
Canning salt can be used in place of urea and it helps preserve the glue too. I believe the ration is 1:2:3 salt:glue:water. Cook it for 2 hours then cool it in the fridge right away then cook it again the next day for 2 hours. 140 degrees. Voila - Old Brown Glue or what they used to just call liquid hide glue. |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
I have used OBG on furniture where I need a little extra time in gluing up. Works great and this gave me enough confidence to use it on bridges starting about 3 years ago. I have built 4 since then and everything is in good shape so far. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
BobHowell wrote: I looked for urea but was directed to mixture with components I didn't like. What are you using as additive? Where do you find it? Homestead Finishing: http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/t ... ents-misc/ |
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| Author: | Bob Orr [ Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
Thanks for all the input guys. Bob |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
Salt works, these additives are just preservatives. The nice chap at the hide glue makers gave it the OK and he certainly knows his hide glue. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
My experiment with OBG made me not use it for guitar work. My sample from the bottle never got hard like pure HHG. It stayed like rubber instead of becoming brittle like glass. I bent it, formed it into a ball, let it sit for weeks. Never got hard. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
If using TB hide glue, especially, watch the date of production, should be used less than 1 year after production - Dating - "It should be above the back label stamped onto the plastic of the bottle and start with the letter "A" followed by a string of numbers. The "A" is a manufacturing code for America... you'll never see product from the plant in China unless you're in southeast Asia. This is followed by the last digit of the year, two digit month, two digit date, and the batch number. As an example, a bottle produced today would have a lot number of A30709. The system was implemented in April of 2009, so you don't need to worry about having a really ancient bottle from 2003" I only use any of the TBs for guitars if less than a year old. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
Negative reports like Waddy’s are common, but so are positive reports like the ones shown above. All I can say is that I feel like I have eliminated more variables when I make the glue myself. Since the selling point for Old Brown Glue over Titebond Liquid Hide Glue is that it is simply hot hide glue with urea added in (as opposed to Titebond, which has more additives), and adding urea to hot hide glue is easy to do myself, that seems like the safest route for me. Plus, I get to vary the amount of urea I add to match how much additional working time I actually need. Like I said above, I mean no harm to the maker of Old Brown Glue, but I get more value and reliability out of cooking it myself. To each her/his own, |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
"Like I said above, I mean no harm to the maker of Old Brown Glue, but I get more value and reliability out of cooking it myself. To each her/his own," You can even add your own urea if you don't mind peeing in the glue pot!  I don't bother trying to extend the open time of HHG - If I can't figure out a quicker way to do it I'll use a different glue. I don't want to adulterate the qualities of the glue if I am going to the trouble to use it in the first place. |
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| Author: | DanSavage [ Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Old Brown Glue |
I use OBG on every re-build to joint the top and to glue the braces to the top. |
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