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—— I’ve deemed Feb. neck month for me. My intention as a new builder is to do nothing but work on carving necks. I’ve done 1 decent neck recently, but I need tons more “rehearsal”.
Cleaning the shop area today so I don’t get distracted from my task at hand.
I’ve purchased some pine which will serve as my learning medium. I want to do 5 before I attempt it in a 30$ slab of anything.
I have the O’Brien video....
But would like to see any the examples I can. This is stacked heel with scarf joint if it matters.
So, do you have any favorite tutorial videos on this?
Links appreciated
Have a great one
B


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Good Luck. Here's a pretty good one for YouTube. Pretty simple and straight forward. Japanese saws are great, I think this video got me to purchase my first one after I saw how quickly and easily they cut. Now that's all I have in the shop. FWIW the Japanese fret saw from SM would work for this as well as cutting fret slots if you do them by hand, it's easily my favorite hand saw.

Thanks for the info- I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong

If you make https http then the forum will show the video
Part 1


Part 2


Part 3

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Here are two that feature some approaches that I've adopted/adapted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zaj-J_9vz4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7YFl5xBsdI

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George :-)

I could not watch the first one with his hand in line with the saw blade the tension got to me.

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I know how you feel. I often sit here cringing while watching YouTube videos. You see some really unsafe stuff sometimes. I keep reminding myself that it is not live and no one is going to upload a. Keep of themselves es cutting a finger off.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Practicing safe tool techniques is critically important. I've learned that lesson the hard way. Those videos have been nestled in my bookmarks folder for quite some time and I neglected to screen them again before posting. My mistake. Still, as I noted, I think there are some useful bits that one might "adopt/adapt." Either way, be careful out there.

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George :-)

SMS, I don't have a video for you but I do have some tricks that have helped me a lot, First, before you start make two templates of your neck profile - nut or first fret, last fret before the heel curve start (10, 12, whatever). If you are working from plans just copy the profiles and glue them to something stiff, if you are working from a neck get that cool device used to duplicate molding (Grizzly has it for about 8 bucks). I make tick marks on mine at the top edge of the f/b and the top of the neck stick itself (glue line). I also write on it the thickness of the overall neck and f/b in the center including radius - check that often with calipers.

Decide if you want your head piece on the bottom of the neck or the end of it. Bottom might look better, end I think is stronger. If you are doing the joint on the end cut the head piece with the length of the head to the short point. You can either thickness it now (easier) or later (if you need more material for some kind of volute). Don't forget to add the thickness of the head veneer. If you are going to do a slot head this is a good time to cut the slots.

Make a really good jig to hold the neck and head piece - they want to skate around when you glue them. Glue your heel stack. Plane the top of the neck perfectly flat and square one side to it. Think about every operation that requires square flat sides - at minimum that is routing the t/r channel but it can also include a lot of cuts for M&T heel joints (including that 4 degree angle on Gibson style necks). Do not make any angle or curved cuts yet. You can do a dovetail at this time - its probably much easier to clamp the jig to the heel of the neck.

lay out critical lines on your neck. These include, at minimum, width at nut and another place, usually 12th fret. I also like to do the width at the body joint, particularly with a cutaway. Mark the thickness of your nut and whether it sits on the flat or angle. Sketch your head stock shape and location of tuners. On the side opposite the trued side mark the thickness of the back and shape of the heel curve. Draw the different parts of your neck to body joint

You can now cut the back of the neck (laying on the flat side) and the taper (laying on the f/b interface). I cut the taper a hair oversize and after I've glued the f/b on I bring the neck to the f/b (I frequently bind the f/b so the edges of it are accurate to widths, also I fret my boards before gluing them on so all of the neck carving needs to take that into consideration.

At this point you can add wings to the head if necessary and cut its shape. If its anything with curves I like to make a template and screw it to the head with two FH screws thru tuner locations. Leave a little extra wood at the transition from neck to head.

Now I start carving - I use a chisels, a tiny plane, spokeshave, rasp, sandpaper, and a small sanding drum in a drill motor. I keep checking the two profile templates and check between them with a straight edge - you want it perfectly flat between the head and the heel. I haven't made any sort of holder (yet) because it seems like every neck is different - I just clamp to my work bench and move the clamps around as I need access.

When I finally have the f/b bound and fretted I glue it on and do the final shaping of the side of the neck and board. Add the head veneer, heel cap, drill tuner holes, open a nice cold adult beverage and relax.

Some of my favorite tools are various rasps, chisels, a Grizzly pneumatic hand drill drum sander, hard 4-5” sanding blocks, and a 5” air sander with a firm pad

Got the sander idea from a Kevin Ryan video years ago. Shape the profiles at the first and tenth (or eighth with a 12F) frets perfectly, blend then into the heel and headstock with the chisels, rasps and drum sander, and hog off the material between with 40G on the sander going to 60 and 80G when getting close.

Refine with the sanding blocks. Everything done after the fretboard is glued on so you can blend the neck curve into the fretboard.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I think it would be better practice to do it with some kind of hardwood.

Neck carving is something there are many different ways to do. I've heard of guys doing the whole job on a belt sander.

I started with only a chisel. (+scraper & sandpaper) Then added a Japanese knife or violin knife. It's such a pleasure to use when razor sharp. Then added the spokeshave. Most recently added the rasp and drawknife to the mix. Love that knife, makes me feel like an arteest!

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Pat

I’m finding that my biggest issue at this point as a new builder (only a year old) is the headstock area and how to get the bulky section before the first fret up to shape correctly


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Look again at Terence Kennedy photos to see how he terminates the flat head stock with an arc. I use a compass, a roll of tape a can lid anything that allows me to pencil in a pleasing arc, I personally like to keep the neck shape to at least the nut for playability. So I have two finished surfaces the neck up to the nut and the head stock plane. With those established I use a chisel and/or a rasp to smooth out the transition between the arc and the neck.

There are many other transitions but I most often use the one like Terence showed.

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My method looks really similar to what Terence is doing. After I've carved the 1st and 9th fret and then connected the two with files, then I use a wide sanding block that spans that distance, one side has 80 and the other 120 grit. I'll use this to even out the the neck.

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I have to admit I haven’t launched into watching the videos yet. It’s homework for tomorrow


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Terence, probably one of the more concise and informative posts I have seen on the OLF in quite some time. Well done and thank you for sharing.

Andy

Well here a first “successful” transition for me using a volute. Yea things are rough and such, but I’m just trying to find a method.
Time to glue another scarf joint and go again

Here is a picture of the first fret area shaped but no transition yet. I do like John and trace the arc with a compass then start with a wide sharp chisel. I put a couple of layers of brown binding tape around the shaped area of the neck to protect it if the chisel slips.

It is surprisingly easy to follow the arc with the chisel and after roughing it in you can refine it with pointed rasps like a Grobet or fine Dragon rasp. Feeling with my hands in a playing position has been the best guide. I frequently think I have it nailed and later feel it and have to do a little more work.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

One of the more challenging things I've encountered is knowing when the shape is right by feel/grasp when there are no strings! I've had to reshape a few after all is done. Not fun.

My customer brought me a guitar that he really liked. I copied the shape of the neck



made two templates



Carved the neck accordingly



He tells me the neck on his new 175 feels just like his vintage Lester



I filed those templates away with the ones I've made for other guitars.

SnowMan, that looks like you are gluing your head onto the bottom of the neck. That means that you have the grain running parallel with the neck in the joint area which is the same as a neck carved out of one block. That is the weakest area of the neck, even worse if you put a truss rod adjuster there. Consider putting the head on the end, then the grain runs across the weak area at 16 degrees. I've done both but prefer this one



You can do your volute by making the head piece thicker, then planing the back after you have it glued on. If I'm not doing a volute I plane the head to final thickness (minus veneer) before gluing it on.

I have done Martin style "darts" by gluing a little piece across the joint and carving it. Looks good and does add some strength to that area





(there's those pesky templates again, different set - different width, shape, number of frets)

Slaps my head. Putting the head on the bottom.... THIS IS WHY I’ve barely been getting enough length out of the board. By the time i thickness it the nut has moved back considerably.
I knew this...
Won’t happen again
Thanks for the observation


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Here is one that I put on the bottom like you are doing - I didn't like it nearly as much and don't feel its as strong (I have fixed too many broken headstocks)



If you look at the picture above of the glued up neck (or read the long post that I made earlier about thinking about how you lay out your work, you will see that went you make your cut the distance from the end of the head to the SHORT point should be your head length. If you thin it from the back (as you will do if you are making a fancy volute) then the head will be exactly the correct length. If you thin from the top the nut will move slightly and the head will be slightly too long (I prefer cutting things off rather than trying to put some back on).

Draw the important dimensions on your work piece and as you sand or plane them off redo them so you have references. I've already suggested making templates for your neck profile, if the head is anything other than straight lines make one for it too. In this case I simply copied my LP plans and glued it on a piece of uhmw. Its better if you make two of the tuner holes countersunk for flat head screws - just screw it on the head and run your router around it.



Once again, I like to do all the vertical cuts (the sides of the head) before I start trying to contour it on the back - most of the time I end of binding the heads so I want those square surfaces

I like to do my scarf joints the way you did it. There are arguments for and against each approach. I access the truss rod through the soundhole, use a volute, have veneers on the front and back and sometimes even have peghead ears that are long grain (depending on the board width I started with). I don't worry too much about the small area of short grain that is in front of the scarf as it it thicker there from the volute and covered with veneer skins on each side.

This post isn't to convince you one way or another, I just wanted to point something out. You may already know this but the wording of your post makes me want to mention it anyway. You can move the nut location as you are shaping your neck blank. Especially so if you have a thicker blank. Planing the fretboard side of the neck shaft will thin the neck and move the nut further from the heel. You can "stretch" a neck blank by doing this. Conversely, you can shorten it by planing off the front of the peghead. This moves the nut location back. A little extra thickness in the shaft and head of the blank give you a lot of leeway to adjust the length of the shaft. A guy I once knew had trouble getting the heel end trimmed the way he wanted it and was glad he could "stretch" the neck to make up for it.

There is a compromise though, if you are putting the scarf joint in the peghead instead of the neck shaft. The thicker the blank, the further out on the peghead the joint falls. If you go too far, you end up with too much of the short grain from the neck shaft portion in the thin angled peghead that isn't supported by the volute.

edited: type-o

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Two comments on Bryan's post. I agree that either joint will work and I've used them both. I make necks with the t/r adjuster thru the soundhole when possible, but on many guitars it has to be in the head. I try to make that area as strong as I can.

Second, yes the nut can and will move. I do the basic glue up of the head as shown in the above pictures, decide if I want the nut on the flat or angle and how thick, then draw the lines. Then, after the head is all laid out, I measure to the neck/body joint (12, 14, 16 whatever number of frets and my scale) and start laying out the heel. Every bit of that layout is done before there are any angle cuts made on the neck and before a rasp or spoke shave gets close to it. As I said before, I can make almost every cut on a bolted or Gibson style M&T on my band saw before any carving is started. Once you loose those square sides you can't do any of that.