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Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
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Author:  clucking [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
Would this be an appropriate thickness sander? I ask cause it's on sale...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/18-1-1- ... nder/G0458?
Author:  RogerC108 [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
While you can if you take small enough bites, I wouldn't advocate a drum sander be used for thicknessing. There's not enough paper to help dissipate heat which means you'll have problems with it clogging up. Thickness sanders usually have a large sanding belt with tons more surface area.
Author:  Freeman [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
It says 'minimum board thickness 1/8 ". Most of the time you want 70 or 80 thou for sides, maybe 100 or 110 for backs and tops.

The reason I'm aware of this is that my local lumber yard just updated their thickness sander but the new one won't go thin enough for my work. I've had to find someone else to do it for me.
Author:  Ken Lewis [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
"It says 'minimum board thickness 1/8 ". Most of the time you want 70 or 80 thou for sides, maybe 100 or 110 for backs and tops.
The reason I'm aware of this is that my local lumber yard just updated their thickness sander but the new one won't go thin enough for my work. I've had to find someone else to do it for me."

Most use a sled or carrier board to get around this limitation on drum sanders in general. Good insurance to prevent feed belt from getting chewed on by drum abrasive.
Ken
Author:  mountain whimsy [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
Dang. Lost the post that I just wrote! 2nd try.

I've been looking at this one for a while. They make a "Z" version that has a 4" port (backordered right now) that is cheaper than the G0458 (not taking into account the sale price). I can't find any real difference between them other than some cosmetic stuff on the switch panel and the 4" port. The one on sale just has a 2.5" port on the end. From my understanding, that just doesn't give you enough air flow to keep the drum cool. Online reviews mention the lack of a 4" port as being a problem. I couldn't imagine using it with the included dust collection bag!

One other puzzle is that the Z version has a smaller overall size, even though they look almost exactly the same and have the same specs.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
I use to have that machine, though I got it in Canada rebadged as Haussmann/Campbell, for 999$ CAD from Rona.

It did the job, albeit slowly.

While a wide belt sander is obviously preferred for thickness sanding, most of us are in the economic/space situation where a drum sander is what we can get.

The dust collection worked quite well, even with just a shop vac, so that's a plus. If you put on 60 grit, and take super light cuts at high speed to keep the heat down (like .002-.003 per pass max), you will eventually get the job done. For me, it was a real letdown being used to a 36" Timesaver wide belt with all the bells and whistles, to then go to a wee drum sander.

But, ultimately it will do the job you need it too, if you take your time. Getting a rosewood back from .150 as it come from the supply house down to .090 can easily take 30-40 minutes. Spruce, much less.

The 1/8 limiter is just a piece of metal that is between the frame and the drum assembly that can be removed, no worries, so don't let that be a deal breaker.

That's the pros...

As for the cons, it has a 4" drum, which means the amount of paper available for sanding is pretty small, so you really, really need to take light passes and put your patience pants on.

Paper changes aren't exactly a nightmare, but it's not exactly easy either. I recall that it was an operation requiring an Allen key and a long handled screwdriver to prevent the drum from rotating which allowed you to pull the Spring clip tight and such. Not the end of the world but also one of those things that makes you sigh every time you have to do it. So again, light passes so as not to burn the paper...

It's bloody heavy. You'll need two folks to get it set up and running, and you'll probably want a mobile base.

Tracking the conveyor is a joke. It never, ever tracked straight, it was a constant battle of sending it left, then right, then left, then right, often in the middle of a pass. Another minor annoyance.

So, if you have nothing, and it's all you can afford, it will be a big step up from nothing.

However, I upgraded as soon as I could. I bought a Delta x5 18-36 and compared to the other it was a delight. A 5" drum, so 20% more paper, but more importantly, it had squeezy clips for the paper which made changes a breeze. I ran both machines for a while, using the Grizzly for spruce, then just said eff it and sold it since the paper changes on the delta were so easy.

So overall, it is a decent machine and will do what you want it to, with patience, but...I would also suggest looking around to see what you can find used somewhere. People are always getting great deals on Supermax's and the like...
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
Is the drum mounted to the frame? Looks pulley driven. If it is not mounted to some internal iron super structure, It shouldnt make claims to being stiffer than Jet/Performax
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
A good wide belt sander is better than a drum sander, for sure. A lot of drum sanders do just fine, some don't; there is a quality spectrum among drum sanders, as with anything. I have not used this particular Grizzly, but I think there are drum sanders out there that are better equipped to do what we need them to do. As Ed said, a Supermax would probably be better. Old, pre-Jet Performax sanders are good when you can find them (that's what I use). If it were me, I would save my money for something better.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
I have a performax (probably not pre-jet) and it works very well.
Author:  doncaparker [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
Jet drum sanders are good, too. What I meant to say is that the Performax brand that existed before it was purchased by Jet made good sanders; those folks went on to create Supermax, so some of the current Supermax line is actually just like what Performax used to make before Jet bought Performax. If it says Jet or Performax or Supermax, it is likely to be a decent sander.

That Grizzly sander shares a lot of design features with the Delta 18" sander, and I think the Delta sander had some dissatisfied customers here and there. That's something to investigate before buying the Grizzly sander.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
I know that here on this forum, there are some who use the Grizzly. But from what I can tell, its a small percentage. There is a reason it's cheaper. And not just because it's made in China. They probably all are. The two issues I see is belt drive (drum can slip, look at the form factor, no way drum is direct drive) and the fact that the drum appears to be mounted to the exterior super structure. Maybe one of the local forum owners of this device can chime in.

If you stop and think about it, the performax design is simple and effective. Moving a table up and down while remaining level requires more parts. The performax iron superstructer requires a single threaded rod. All of it is very heavy duty iron. And its direct drive. As for the oscillating variants, I had no interest as that requires more moving parts. Can do similar with angular feeds (guitar parts are not that wide)
Author:  bluescreek [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
you get what you pay for
save your money there are better options out there
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
bluescreek wrote:
you get what you pay for
save your money there are better options out there


What John said. And, BTW, I've seen John praise and use (sorry if I got this wrong John) other Grizzly tools. But the drum sander has never been a fav around here.
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
through the years Grizzly made thing cheaper and cheaper. I only have 3 grizzly tools left Shop Fox , while owned by Grizzly uses better bearing and motors. Also some of the tooling to save money were not heat treated and wear out prematurely . The Grizzly showroom in Muncy PA shut down and is no longer available. With Amazon and the free shipping I buy there a god bit or go to York Pa where Wilke Machinery is. Higher price but better quality.
Author:  doncaparker [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
Mike OMelia wrote:
I know that here on this forum, there are some who use the Grizzly. But from what I can tell, its a small percentage. There is a reason it's cheaper. And not just because it's made in China. They probably all are. The two issues I see is belt drive (drum can slip, look at the form factor, no way drum is direct drive) and the fact that the drum appears to be mounted to the exterior super structure. Maybe one of the local forum owners of this device can chime in.

If you stop and think about it, the performax design is simple and effective. Moving a table up and down while remaining level requires more parts. The performax iron superstructer requires a single threaded rod. All of it is very heavy duty iron. And its direct drive. As for the oscillating variants, I had no interest as that requires more moving parts. Can do similar with angular feeds (guitar parts are not that wide)


Well, in fairness, I don't think those specific design aspects (belt driven drum, the conveyor bed going up and down instead of the drum) are the problem. After all, the more expensive, non cantilevered drum sanders that Supermax makes have those design features. I think maybe the incorporation of those design choices into what is meant to be a modest price point machine is the problem. In other words, if you are going to have a conveyor bed that moves up and down, it is important to have that movement happen without slop, and maybe that is a level of precision that is hard to manufacture at that modest price point. And/or, if the drum is cantilevered, you need a really sturdy support structure to avoid flexing, and maybe that's also hard to manufacture at that modest price point.

There is something pretty elegant about the fact that the best cantilevered sanders are direct drive; it allows the weight of the motor to somewhat counterbalance the weight of the cantilevered drum, with the fulcrum being the drum height adjustment mechanism. Jet and Supermax both take advantage of that in their designs. I prefer my non cantilevered Performax, but it is a different machine with a different set of design choices, and all done at a higher price point than the Grizzly.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
It doesn't sound like anyone has experience with that actual machine. There are some people who can make everything work and some people who can't make anything work. I've used a number of different sanders, and some are better than others, but they all seem to need some tuning up. The only one I have owned is a small Ryobi (16-32) that I bought used - not a great sander, but as much expense as I can justify for hobby use and the occasional paying job.
The only Grizzly I have used was a 24 inch wide unit that used a chain wrapped around 4 threaded posts to raise and lower the feed table. It was very difficult to keep the table aligned with the drum. It had two drums. but like most double drum sanders you could only effectively use one of the drums. I wouldn't trade the Ryobi for one.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
If you go with a sander and don’t have a shop dust collection system I can say the dust deputy system does work well. I have the jet 10-20 and it works great with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
Dust Deputy's are awesome!
Author:  Michaeldc [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
SnowManSnow wrote:
If you go with a sander and don’t have a shop dust collection system I can say the dust deputy system does work well. I have the jet 10-20 and it works great with it

+1! I've got one on my general shop vacuum. Works great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
Lots of good points made here. I think you (OP) have enough information to make an informed purchase. In my shop, besides the bandsaw, my drumsander is the most used machine. Invest wisely here. You don't want to have to do it twice.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
doncaparker wrote:
There is something pretty elegant about the fact that the best cantilevered sanders are direct drive; it allows the weight of the motor to somewhat counterbalance the weight of the cantilevered drum, with the fulcrum being the drum height adjustment mechanism. Jet and Supermax both take advantage of that in their designs. I prefer my non cantilevered Performax, but it is a different machine with a different set of design choices, and all done at a higher price point than the Grizzly.


Must admit, I missed that in my critical analysis of the performax direct drive concept. Makes a lot of sense, counterbalances the weight on the screw drive. Never stopped to think why the up/down drive mechanism is so easy.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
I’ve got a Jet that’s similar. Thicknessing does take a while but not so bad with 60 grit. Also a good sharp hand plane can help get close to quicken the job/lower electric bill as well before dialing in with the drum sander.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
I used my friends Grizzly way back and it seemed to work just fine. I didn't realize the drum was only 4 in. Bigger drum seems like a better idea as heat build up is one of the Achilles tendons of these things.

But for that price, most people have good experiences with the performax / jet units which can be found used for $400-600. I have had several of the Ryobi drum sanders and they all worked great and can be found even cheaper although a little more rare.
Author:  Michaeldc [ Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
I really like my Supermax 19-38. Yes it's twice the money of the Griz but it's also a lot more machine. Comparing the Supermax 19-38 to the Performax/jet 16-32: 3 inches wider, 4 inch thickness capacity vs 3", 1-3/4hp vs 1-1/2hp, it's cast iron not cast aluminum, the Supermax weighs almost 100lbs more, paper changes are much easier because there is just more room to access the clips, and a 19" single pass capacity is just right for luferin.

M
Author:  bftobin [ Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grizzly G0458 Drum Sander for thickness sanding?
I'm with Michael on this one. I got the same Supermax and the only thing better would be those wide belt sanders.
The Supermax is worth every penny, and you can run joined tops and backs with no problem.If i have a lot to hog off,
I'll use my Lee Valley low angle hand plane first and then finish up on the sander. I keep 80grit on the drum and many
passes at a high feed rate. Finish sanding by hand is not to difficult. I'd recommend saving up some cash and waiting
to buy a machine that will last you without having to be replaced a few years down the line.
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