Official Luthiers Forum!

In building steel strings with an arched back (1/4" over 16"), I keep trying different ways to hold the body while cutting the binding ledge, and none of them satisfy.

I feel like I'm missing something in Cumpiano and Natelson, there is no mention of how to make the thing sit still while cutting the ledge.

Mostly what I've tried have been bad ideas I made up. I can get it done, while constantly thinking "there has got to be a better way". I'm willing to spend a little and/or do some jig construction, whatever gets the job done in a way that inspires confidence.

What do you guys do to keep it still?

Thanks!

Most use a cradle to hold the body level and stationary. Do a search for guitar cradle and you should come
up with a picture or two. Or maybe someone has pics close at hand to post?
Ken

Easy to make or you can buy. Here's what they look like.
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com/shop/i ... cts_id=138

Thank you, that looks awesome. Now to ponder build vs. buy...

It kind of depends on what type of cutter you are using.

If you are using one of the jigs with bearings... a cradle as mentioned works great.
If you are just using an edge guide on a router, as described in the book and don't want to make a cradle you might try using a paddle/stick bolted into the neck mortise to do most of the clamping (stick the free end in a vice or clamp it to the bench)and then just support the rest of the body weight on carpet/padding. This could also work if your jig registers off the sides when a cradle might get in the way.

Kent

When I did it by hand, with a gramill, I would just hold it in my lap or on the carpet. If you're using a router you need to find some way to secure it. I use the cradle that I use with my binding router jig and also have a shop made vacuum setup which works great with much less setup if you're using a hand router.

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Pat

If you are just using a hand-held router just leave it in the mould and clamp the mould to your work bench.

If your mould is too deep to pass the router round, put some blocks inside the mould, on your bench to raise the body up.

G.

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www.leddingtonguitars.com

Here is the one from stewmac. These are individual parts for their binding jig. So scroll down and find what you need. I have the jig and it works great imo.
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Ty ... annel.html



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I am used to using trimmers with one hand, so I usually use the other hand to hold the body against a mat on the bench. I climb cut the channel, so I am routing with one hand then turning the body with the other (not at the same time) I have been tempted to make a cradle and even got some adjustable plastic leveler"feet" (used on furniture) to level the body in the jig. Just haven't done it yet.

StewMac jig, I added a few holes for different sizes and cutaway configurations. Next time I do a double cut I'll add one support under the neck cavity.

Edit to add, I had to drill holes in the angle aluminum base for my little laminate trimmer.

Freeman, I use that same setup except that I cut my own plywood base for the cradle. I had a little trouble getting and keeping the body level on the cradle. I've been trying to decide if a couple more of those levelers would help or make it even harder. Or maybe it's just a consequence of where I mounted those things on the plywood base?

Have you had any difficulty with leveling the body?

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway YES!!! I hate those sleds. I can't ever seem to get it level and steady. I have no good solution. I currently use the clamped router with a guide (like the Endsor or Canadian Luthier Supply version). But balancing and properly moving the body is a skill set that needs practice. I'm not sure what kind of inexpensive and easy to fashion stand-in I would need to practice, because practicing on a completed guitar body is NOT COOL. I have seen a router table version where the body is pressed into a large foam block. Perhaps I'll try that next. It is my least favorite and least successful operation building the guitar. I dearly wish I had a reliable solution.

Well, at least I’m not the only one. Thanks for that. Seems worth trying to improve the guitar holding and leveling. I like the router held level above the body and the routing operation feels secure.


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I just put bindings on #4 sound box this month. I found it unnerving to cut with the router but went with a router table. Slowly cutting more each pass. Sneaking up on the target size so I could get used to the process. I removed about 95% of the wood this way and the rest with cutting gauge(design found on you tube), and files, compensating for inherent misalignment. Each one gets better.
I found this process mentioned in several post and youtube shorts. I started cutting all by hand, as Robbie O'brian proposes, but soon saw that would take forever.

I am trying to use tools on hand rather than buying or making a lot of fixtures,

Here I am routing the rotten binding off an old Ibanez jazz guitar. Lightly clamped the guitar down to the little "levelers" - as I approached each one I popped the clamp off, then put it back on as I moved by.



When I first started building guitars I cut a couple of shims at about 5 degrees and taped them to the bottom of a laminate trimmer. If I was careful I could twist the router as I went around the guitar and get a fairly decent channel. For the top I either used shallower shims or nothing. Then I cleaned them up with chisels and rasps, installed my binding and drop filled the gaps.

When I started making guitars with arched tops I knew I needed something better, bought the SM rig and have been very pleased with it. Yes, it takes some time to adjust the guitar in the cradle and their might be a better design. Yes, I've had to drill some extra holes and move the little levelers around. Yes, it might take me fifteen or so minutes to get it set up.

But the channels are perfect. I almost never have to do any clean up chiseling. On the Ibanez the binding was shot but the purfling was good and I was able to save it.





I sure couldn't have done that holding the router somehow by hand.

Here's the carriage I use to hold the guitar when I'm cutting binding/purfling channels. I made this a good few years ago now, and whilst it looks functionally similar to some of the commercial offerings it has a few important differences that until now I hadn't really appreciated.



First, all the adjustments are locked with one wingnut for each support, with tilt adjustment by using packers (see the yellow thing under the near right support). That means I can set up any of the six guitar shapes I use (with or without cutaways) in just a couple of minutes. The lower bout supports just move in and out and rotate; the waist supports move in and out, forward and backward, rotate and are height adjustable with the packers. However, the major difference is the hold-downs at the neck and butt. These locate in holes drilled in the neck and butt blocks of the guitar which are "disappeared" when the neck mortise and butt strip channel are cut. Snugging these down very positively locks the guitar in place. The hex nut sets the initial height and wing nut beneath locks things down. I use a tower type router holder and the cutter bearing clears everything, so no need to make any adjustments during a cut. I guess the cut takes about a minute to get round once (I do it in one hit), but I usually go around twice and there's very little to no clean up afterwards, but that is entirely dependent on how sharp your bit is.

On the odd occasion I've re-bound a guitar and couldn't use the hold-downs, I've just rested my hands on the top, pressing squarely onto the supports and moved the guitar around like that.

There are more pics in the book, but no drawings of the carriage. I hadn't realized that people were having such tedious set-up issues with the commercially available units or I'd have included a drawing, too. However, there's nothing particularly tricky about it, as you can see.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I have used several methods, both handmade and commercially offered, but I currently use the LMI tower jig (with the screw-in donut) and a rabbeting bit with bearings to cut the channels, along with the LMI guitar holder to hold the body. The guitar holder works better than any of the other holders I have used. I hate to think about the person-hours I would have put into designing and building something that works as well. If you set everything up correctly, and use it correctly, you get vertical cuts (no tilting), consistent depth of cut both vertically and horizontally, and no exciting surprises.

I use a handheld router with an attachment I think I bought from Luthiers Supply, but I could be wrong about that. I went cheap on the hold down end of things. I just use a work board that has a 2x4 attached to the bottom that I put in the vise. The work board has a strip of 1/4" cork plus weather stripping around the edge that pads the guitar and keeps the radiused back off the board. Then I use a couple cam clamps to hold the body down, moving them as needed. Kiss is what i keep telling myself, (Plus I don't like making jigs)

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Thank you @Trevor Gore. I think the neck and "butt" pins are actually a fairly important key difference. That is a more positive indexing and locking connection to the sled than just friction on the pads. I think I would feel more confident that the guitar won't lift or shift in the sled as I rout with those.

A minute and a single pass with little clean up per side. Jealousy is not a strong enough word for what I'm feeling.

The only thing about the hold downs is the bottom one "disappears in the butt strip channel" and my butt strip channel is cut and filled with said butt strip before the binding channels are cut.
I seem to remember from the Book that Trevor fits his strip at a later stage.
Anyway. so far (fingers crossed), no problem at all with my bodies resting, evenly supported in my shop built cradle - easy enough to eliminate any "rock" before switching on the laminate trimmer.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.