Has anyone tried one of these?
I have most of it figured out, except the bridge pins, I am totally going to make one and build a jig for it, but I can't find who made it so I can ask...
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Bridges |
Has anyone tried one of these? I have most of it figured out, except the bridge pins, I am totally going to make one and build a jig for it, but I can't find who made it so I can ask... |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Google Mike Doolin pinless bridge |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Slick!!!! |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Interesting. I can't quite figure it out. I remember working on an old Levin guitar that had individual saddle pieces sort of like that. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
I got it, very helpful. I didn't see the pins in the string locks, it's all very doable. I already have a design in mind, however if I use the pin saddle idea, doing precise intonation would be a pain. I think it's time for some sketchup designs so I can build some jigs, the one difference in all my guitars is I set the saddle back about 10 degrees, to my ear I get a more solid tone out of it (but it could just be my mind  Thank You... I know what I'm doing next 
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| Author: | WilliamS [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
That is a Jeffery Elliott bridge. He originated that style and Mike Doolin uses it and even has a great tutorial kicking around somewhere online on how to construct it. I believe Mr. Elliott doesn't mind folks using his design, so long as credit is rightly placed (and, of course, both Mr. Doolin and Mr. Elliott ask that folks using the design and tutorial come up with their own original shape). It's not really a "pinless" bridge, rather a permanent-pin bridge. They work great-I've made a couple. One thing to mention, though, (as Mike brings up in his tut) you want to pay close attention to the geometry of things to ensure you get sufficient break angle. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
WilliamS wrote: That is a Jeffery Elliott bridge. He originated that style and Mike Doolin uses it and even has a great tutorial kicking around somewhere online on how to construct it. I believe Mr. Elliott doesn't mind folks using his design, so long as credit is rightly placed (and, of course, both Mr. Doolin and Mr. Elliott ask that folks using the design and tutorial come up with their own original shape). It's not really a "pinless" bridge, rather a permanent-pin bridge. They work great-I've made a couple. One thing to mention, though, (as Mike brings up in his tut) you want to pay close attention to the geometry of things to ensure you get sufficient break angle. Did you have any issues with intonation? I already have a bridge design that I will adapt from my standard guitars Thanks -Paul- |
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| Author: | DanKirkland [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
That is cool. There were a couple of Gibsons (the J55 being one of them) from way back that had the same sort of approach, but they still used pins 
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Looks like a PITA for action adjustment. |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
How do you adjust intonation? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | printer2 [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
meddlingfool wrote: Looks like a PITA for action adjustment. Long slotted set screws with the slot ground to provide the ramp. Just spin it one revolution at a time. Intonation, half a revolution. Just kidding. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Here's my version of that which uses a standard saddle. Attachment: bridge-close-up.jpg
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| Author: | WilliamS [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Sprockett wrote: Did you have any issues with intonation? Thanks -Paul- Sorry, responded on the fly earlier without seeing that you're interested in doing the individual saddles, too. The couple I've done have been very similar to Jim's, with a traditional saddle...had no intonation issues. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
WilliamS wrote: Sprockett wrote: Did you have any issues with intonation? Thanks -Paul- Sorry, responded on the fly earlier without seeing that you're interested in doing the individual saddles, too. The couple I've done have been very similar to Jim's, with a traditional saddle...had no intonation issues. I missed that point too. Sorry. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
I've used that string retainer setup a number of times, with a standard saddle. In my bridges it's the ball ends bearing on the brass tube inserts that hold the strings in; the pins are only there to keep the ball ends from rotating and flipping out. I use 1/16" brass rod stock for those, as there's no real load on them, and they work fine. The trick with this is that the holes for the ball ends are drilled at a greater angle, so that the pull of the string draws the ball end down into the hole. You only have to hold it in while the string is slack; once you get some tension on it's locked. It's easy to change the strings when you back off the twnsion,though; they just pop out of the holes when you pull the string upward behind the bridge. It's a really slick design, and Jeff deserves every bit of credit he can get for it. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Jim Watts wrote: Here's my version of that which uses a standard saddle. Attachment: bridge-close-up.jpg That is some good craftsmanship!!! |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Looks like under saddle pickup out of question. Most I build have those pickups. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Jim Watts wrote: Here's my version of that which uses a standard saddle. Attachment: bridge-close-up.jpg Could you please explain the pins? |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
If you like USTs, and want to use the separate saddles, you can get Baggs 'Hex' pickups. They are encapsulated USTs in a brass housing with built-in adjusting screws for height. They're made to fit into a standard saddle slot, but are independent. |
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| Author: | WilliamS [ Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Could you please explain the pins? The pins are short lengths of piano wire, glued through the bridge, into the bridge plate, that the eye of the ball ends slip over. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
Note that you only need to use such heavy wire and anchor it that strongly if the pins are actually taking the load. I learned about this type of string anchor from pictures. Since there was no explanation of how it was 'supposed' to work I figured out the way I thought it should. I've used pins as string anchors before, and found that they invariably needed to be a lot heavier and better anchored than you imagine they should. Keep in mind that while the pin itself might not bend under the load, it's set into wood, and a small diameter pin can compress even quite hard wood enough to get loose in relatively short order. The thing that immediately struck me in seeing pictures of the Elliot bridge was that the load could be taken by the ball end bearing on the edge of the recess, rather than the pin. This is inherently stronger, as it spreads the load more widely, and the wood has a better chance of withstanding it over the long term. It was only when the GAL published the plans of the Sullivan-Elliot harp guitar that John Doan plays that I saw that he had used metal inserts in the recesses, which greatly enhances the strength. Even taking the load on wood works pretty well, but with brass or aluminum inserts it's that much better. One big advantage of this is that it frees you from the need for a hard wood bridge plate inside to take the pins. I've used this to great advantage on a couple of harp guitars, where it would have been very difficult to design a brace system for the top that made both structural and acoustic sense if I'd needed to have an inside bridge plate. With light pins that are just set into the bridge itself, and don't carry the string load, you can concentrate on getting the bracing right, and put the bridge where it needs to be. I will say that the tubing inserts are fussy, and need to be carefully done to work well. This is, of course, the only such thing on the guitar, right?
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| Author: | WilliamS [ Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bridges |
On the two I've done I used a spruce bridge plate with the addition of a small CF patch that the pins were anchored to. So far, so good...but spreading the load as Alan suggests makes a lot of sense. |
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