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The Redwood Top Thread
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49499		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  The Redwood Top Thread
Good day gents,
I would love to get your thoughts on redwood as a top material. Have you used it before? How does it work? What about the sound? Stiffness? Pics ?

Thank you for any insights :)
Blessings.
B


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Author:  James Orr [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  The Redwood Top Thread
My most recent has an LS redwood top. I treated it like Sitka at the advice of a mentor, meaning I thicknessed it to the same deflection. It's very sensitive to dynamics and touch but has less punch than Sitka would. It's a beautiful sounding guitar. Next time I might leave an extra .010" on, but I'm very pleased with it. Mind you I worked the top very thin at a touch thinner than .08".

Redwood varies greatly from tree to tree. More so than other woods IMO. I would make sure you have some method to dial in top thickness rather than working from a rote measurement recommendation.

I don't hear this much anymore, but it used to be common to hear that redwood is like a combination of cedar and spruce. It certainly has the definition of spruce on the attack, but a little less weight behind it IMO. The overtones are gorgeous. It's an absolutely fantastic tonewood.


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Author:  rlrhett [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
I've used it a number of times, and at Palomar College we probably see 6-7 instruments a year built by the students and instructors out of redwood. One year we were donated reclaimed redwood from a water tower in Northern California. The wood must have been a thousand years old.

I carved an archtop out of it, and at least a dozen guitars were made from those couple of planks. Some of the nicest tone wood I've ever had the privilege to work.
Author:  Tim L [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Several years ago I traded shop work for sets of sinker Redwood from the same person that is selling to a major NorCal distributor and sponsor here.
I also have several sets of Redwood that were cut from reclaimed mine timbers, from a different supplier.
What I have noticed is that the stiffness drops off fairly quickly if not 1/4 sawn. They are all fairly brittle and crack/break rather easily. They were all well dried.
I really like the sound on the ones I have built. They have a warm deep, clear tone and seem fairly loud. I left them 5-10% thicker than spruce to start and a lot of that came off when I was graduating the tops. I look forward to using it again.
Author:  violinvic [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
I built a 14 fret OM with a redwood top and was real happy with the balance and sustain. I didn't get to play it a lot before it went to the present owner. She loves it.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
I heartily suggest getting more experience with spruce first to develop a sense of appropriate top material, or dig hard into the data analysis side of things.

The variation in spruce is much less than in redwood, redwood is literally all over the map. I don't think I'll buy it again unless I can select it myself. I've sent back far more than I kept, and bought from very reputable sources. I've spent more money on returning redwood than I have on redwood product that I've kept.

So until you get a sense of what a top shoUld feel and sound like, it's a real crapshoot.

.02
Author:  jfmckenna [ Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
I like it. I've only built one classical and one dreadnought from it and both are good guitars. This one is a mahogany redwood guitar that sounds great, lots of overtones.

Image
Author:  George L [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Tim L wrote:
What I have noticed is that the stiffness drops off fairly quickly if not 1/4 sawn. They are all fairly brittle and crack/break rather easily ... I left them 5-10% thicker than spruce to start and a lot of that came off when I was graduating the tops.

I agree with Tim's comments. I think it's lovely wood to work and can make a fine sounding guitar, but does require careful selection and special handling.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
I like redwood quite a bit. It is on the brittle side and might crack with rough handling but not a big problem. It makes a very nice sounding guitar.

Although I have built several with it I could only lay my hands on a picture of a curly redwood topped SS.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Does anyone have a comparison of the stiffness of normal redwood vs sinker redwood? If 2 identical instruments were built by the same builder in the same way with the same specs would there be a difference in tone?
I've read (forgot where) that sinker can be harder / stiffer.


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Author:  rlrhett [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Just like any wood, each piece is individual. You wouldn't just build spruce to a spec without flexing it to see if you need more or less. I would assume the same would apply whether the redwood is sinker or not. I don't believe being sinker wood dramatically changes the physical properties.

Of course, I could be wrong...


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Author:  James Orr [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread

This is my mini-piece of the week, the first few bars to Clive Carrolls, "Lady of the Valley". I only worked on the first few because they're the only ones I have any shot at playing. laughing6-hehe

I thought I'd record it so that you can hear the guitar and redwood top
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Thank you much for the sound sample. The guitar ... to me ... has a VERY unique sound that I can't put my finger on...
It's like a hard dark sound. I'm sure that a new one haha
Again James thanks...


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Author:  Sprockett [ Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
It's a great tone wood, it sounds fabulous, it's not as "sparkly" as spruce, but it's richer if that makes sense.

Also some caveats...

It's soft, so it dings too easily, put a guard on the joined top when you get it cut out (I just use some heavy poster paper). It's not as bright as Spruce, so your top should be just a hair thicker. I've not had any issues gluing it up or working with it, I just keep in mind that I need to be gentle and patient with it.

I've got a number of sets in my stack waiting to be used later this summer, love to get my hands on some sinker redwood....

-Paul-
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
SnowManSnow wrote:
Does anyone have a comparison of the stiffness of normal redwood vs sinker redwood? If 2 identical instruments were built by the same builder in the same way with the same specs would there be a difference in tone?
I've read (forgot where) that sinker can be harder / stiffer.


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I've only built one sinker top, but I've handled a few other sets as well, and my feeling is that it mainly affects the appearance and smell rather than the tone. But redwood is so variable to begin with that it's hard to say whether something is due to being sinker or inherent to the piece.

Redwood is my favorite soundboard material. If spruce is vanilla ice cream and cedar is chocolate, then redwood is Neapolitan :) A bit of both, with an exciting new flavor as well. Also very easy to work, and has low humidity expansion so if you brace dry it will tolerate just about any humidity.
Author:  Droidiphile [ Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Talk to Trevor Gore. He built a redwood top neoclassical for me. He used "ancient" sinker wood - I think he said it was 300 years old??? (I'm prolly wrong.) The back and sides are Pterocarpus indicus.

The sound is beyond amazing - which I'm sure the redwood contributes to greatly. It is soft like cedar, and with a FP finish, it is "fragile". See pics.
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gore redwood 01.jpg

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gore redwood 02.jpg

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gore redwood 03.jpg
Author:  Bobc [ Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
WOW Andrew. That guitar is gorgeous.
Author:  BradHall [ Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
I built an OM with a beautiful set of redwood for the top acquired from LMI. Walnut back and sides. I enjoyed working with it. Learned to clip my fingernails short and use protective tape early on as it is easily scratched or dented. I finished it in tru-oil and think it is beautiful. I'm a new enough builder that I can't attribute the sound to any particular tone wood or thickness or bracing pattern. I do know I like the sound I get out of the guitar, which was the reason for the build after all .
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Here's another one with a redwood top from the same tree as the classical above. When you've got everything else under control and have a really nice guitar, it is only special wood that makes a very special guitar. The few redwood guitars I've built have all had "it", all made from the same very low damping redwood, but otherwise treated "text book" fashion. And unfortunately, I've used the last of that wood! As others have said, redwood is very variable, so you need to choose it personally.

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RedWdBloodWdc.jpg
Author:  Droidiphile [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Bobc wrote:
WOW Andrew. That guitar is gorgeous.
Trevor Gore wrote:
... The few redwood guitars I've built have all had "it", all made from the same very low damping redwood, but otherwise treated "text book" fashion. And unfortunately, I've used the last of that wood! ...
Praise goes to Trevor! I feel extremely lucky to own some of Trevor's work and a piece of "that redwood" !

I used to think that my Factory Rodriguez FF Sabicas was an exceptional guitar. And it is. But it simply sounds dead and lifeless compared my Gore redwood top. And I can say this with some degree of objectivity as three people in particular have raved about it's sonority :: Ben Barron (grad of SF Conservatory and my Master instructor), Pamela Goldsmith (professor of classical guitar at Linfield college and my online instructor), and Lewis Santor (luthier, and protege of Ervin Somogyi).

The fun story about this guitar? Ben and I were performing at a private concert. We do a "master/student" type presentation. He asked to "check out" my Gore. He immediately said "This is a sweet sounding guitar!" He would not put it down. Literally. I asked for it back and he said "just a few more minutes" - several times. I had to get assertive and demand it back as I still needed to warm up! Keep in mind that Ben plays the Ruck made for Rey de la Torre! And he would not put the Gore down! Sweet indeed! [:Y:]

Ben wants to record on my Gore. I'd like to record him, too. But alas, my work schedule is kinda killing me. Maybe later this year.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Redwood Top Thread
Good story Andrew, and quite an affirmation of Trevor's beautiful work
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