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| Author: | stan thomison [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | laser cutter |
read below about a guitar with inlay cut with a laser. This is something I would like to do, not only for guitars, but fly boxes. On boxes want to cut a recess in wood. Will they do that? As far as guitar, may see several uses, since wife won' let me play with sharp stuff because of pump running the heart and very thin blood to prevent clots. Good thing have a close by son in law who cuts up parts for me. Have several questions for anyone who uses one or familiar with them. |
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
I have a Epilog laser as well as a CNC router and couldn't imagine work without them. They are very expensive tools to add to the workshop, so you need to be certain that you will be getting some use out of them......or be well off enough that it doesn't matter. For most work, the inlay material I cut with the laser. The recess I cut on the CNC. However, it's possible to engrave material away on the laser so that the cut material will fit into it. Learning curve can be steep if you aren't up on computers and software. So be warned. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
Not that well off. Not much of a computer guy, but son in law and grandsons are. What size for smaller stuff would work (guess watts |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
Hey Stan. I have access to a laser and a CNC in the makerspace I belong to. I used the laser to cut the bridge plate in my last guitar, but I wouldn't want to use it for inlay. It cuts along a precision path, but it also scorches and chars the edges as it cuts. I don't want to discourage you from exploring them, but I'd warn against relying on family unless you know that they're capable with CAD. This is a unique skill set. Using the laser is easy -- developing the files is where the trick lays. |
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
My laser is a 40 watt Epilog Helix with a 12" x 18" work area. I wouldn't go any lower power than that myself. And there is a huge difference in the build quality and ease of use, and customer support of models available from various vendors. Chinese ones are much cheaper with zero customer support and from feedback I've heard from others they regret the day they ever bought them. As James said. I'd explore the possiblility of using one in a shared space, school or tech college first to gauge their suitablity to what you want to achieve. I believe the price for one like mine in the USA will be around the $20K mark. Alternately, you can sublet the work to someone that has one. That's what I did to start off with. A local trohpy shop was happy to do the work. I supplied the computer files and material to cut. They charged a reasonable fee for the service. You will also need software to design your work. The standards are either Corel or Adobe. And fume extraction. These things make a lot of smoke and fumes that will destroy the machine in quick order if you don't get them out. Plus pretty toxic to breath. They're an absolute must. I use a repurposed dust extraction unit from my workshop to the task. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
I have an 80 watt Chinese laser. I do wish I had an Epilog or a Trotec but I paid about 1/5 the cost of those name brand machines. The Chinese machine will get the job done but the software is a little buggy, at times the machine does weird stuff, and the initial setup (aiming mirrors etc.) was a major PITA. Others have had better experiences. You can check out the engravers forum on Sawmill Creek to read about other's experiences. If you want to do a lot of engraving, the name brand machines are much faster. One big difference between the Chinese & name brand machines is the laser itself. The Chines machines use a DC laser while the name brand machines us an RF laser. I've never uses an RF laser but I know that adjusting the frequency gives you more control than just speed & power like on a DC laser - maybe Allen could share more info on this. I've been able to cut some materials like clear maple with minimal charring, it just gets sort of caramelized on the edge. I've tried to cut shell veneer that I glued to thin black ABS and the results were mediocre at best. Maybe if I spent more time experimenting I could get better results. I'm currently out of town but can post some photos next week of what I've done. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
I haven't had to do anything to my laser for set up other than getting the drivers installed and the computer talking to it. That was rather frustrating, as I work on Mac's and the driver must be used on a Windows machine. So had to set up Windows on a virtual machine on my Mac through Parrallels. Once set up, it works a treat. I can do my design on the Mac and just open up Windows and then print to the laser. Still wish there was a native Mac driver though. There are things that cut and engrave really well, and others that just do not. Ebony and shell are extremely difficult to do much with. I have seen video demo's of some sort of shel laminate designed for laser cutting that was very easy, but I haven't tried it. I believe it's extremely thin and not something I want to use on my instruments. I use lots of different timbers for my rosette inlays and at 1.2mm thick almost everything cutss without any problem at all. For my peghead overlays I use a lot of Indian Rosewood and it engraves and cuts at 3mm thick reasonably easy. Maple will cut like butter. I've also started to cut out all my backs and soundboards on the laser. Most at 3.5 to 4.0 mm thick and all cut in one pass. And at just 2mm oversize so it's dead easy to trim off the excess when the time comes. Other things like acrylic for templates are a breeze. And I just recently did some Recon Stone for an inlay of initials into a small tile of timber. I was amazed at how well it turned out. The letters are only 5mm tall and were so small that I had to use tweezers and my magnifying visor to get them in position. Attachment: untitled-9.jpg Attachment: untitled-14.jpg
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
Just to reiterate what others have said, it isn't really about being "good with computers". In the same way that being a "good driver" doesn't necessarily equate with being able to effectively use a bulldozer. CAD/CAM software is specialized software that takes training and a fairly steep learning curve. That is not to say that learning the software requires an advanced degree in engineering. But it is unlikely that a family member or friend will invest the time to become proficient in this software on your behalf. I find most luthiers I talk to are absorbed in the myriad of skills they need to develop for lutherie, adding a major new skill set just to use one tool is not realistic. I would advise anyone interested in buying a CNC or laser to really check in with themselves and ask if they are willing to invest possibly a hundred hours or more on a computer and a notoriously finicky machine just to get up to speed with it. If that doesn't sound engaging, if finding time to build is hard enough, then you are probably best suited to just skip it. |
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| Author: | David J Fisher [ Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
I run an import laser, as well as a cnc machine. I am self taught. I run fusion 360 and corel draw. I feel as though both programs are with in the grasp of most people who can construct an instrument. I find that most of the time it just takes patience. Just make a bunch of test pieces. Also, laser cutters perform two different task, engraving (raster) and cutting. Fusion 360 is free for start ups and is amazingly capable. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
I work in a shop very similar to the popular makerspaces that exist out there- full of tools like lasers, 3D printers, CNC machines,. robotics etc.... I have access to powerful lasers all day long and use them.... never. 3D printers either. Not that I think they are useless but I honestly cannot think of something guitar related best done on them. Emphasis there on BEST done- they will do lots of things, of course. Students here spend more time sanding off the burnt edges than cutting their parts. It's best use is on plexiglass, which comes out with an almost polished looking edge. If I wanted to cut small parts at home I would look at something like the Roland MDX-40 or similar: https://www.rolanddga.com/products/3d/m ... p-cnc-mill Totally a toy by real CNC standards but will give you better results in its range than a laser will on pretty much anything, except plexiglass. Will still require CAD knowledge, of course. There is some CAM capability built in but it isn't great. And the spindle is astonishingly flimsy- tiny cuts and small parts. Inlay, etc.... no hogging. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
Thanks guys. Think I will stick to old school and use others for certain things. Doesn't matter much now as I am back in the hospital for God know how long. Last time 9 weeks |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: laser cutter |
Hey, get well soon! |
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