Official Luthiers Forum!
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Files for set-ups
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49474		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  geetarman77 [ Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Files for set-ups
Just wondering what brand of files everyone's using for set-ups (nuts and saddles)
Happy building.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  James Orr [ Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Stew-Mac's double-edged nut files.
Author:  Clinchriver [ Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
UO-CHIK YU, Not sure what Stew Mac sells I bought a set of these quite a while back and filled in the gaps before I took the Fretting and Setup classes at Ann Arbor guitars

http://www.japarts.ca/Uo-Chikyu/Uo-Chik ... -Files.asp
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Clinchriver wrote:
UO-CHIK YU, Not sure what Stew Mac sells I bought a set of these quite a while back and filled in the gaps before I took the Fretting and Setup classes at Ann Arbor guitars

http://www.japarts.ca/Uo-Chikyu/Uo-Chik ... -Files.asp


I have the same ones. For the two thinnest, I made holders to keep them from bending.

Alex
Author:  Chris Pile [ Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
For getting the guitar ready - I have pillar files from StewMac.
Also use them for rough shaping of the bone nut after sizing it on the disc sander.
Final shaping - an ancient set of Grobet die sinker files.
Slots - Exacto saw blades of several sizes for plain strings, and another ancient set of Ibanez nut slotting files for the wound strings.
To start the slots when spacing the positions, I have a feather file used only for that job - StewMac again.
Literally just a stroke or two to make the mark....
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Gauged files from SM. The popular ones last me about a year before I want new, sharper ones and I retain the dull ones for future sharpening and/or that single, last....... pass of just a short stroke that often can you in trouble if it goes too low........

We also use our files on composite dental filling which at times can be gummy also shortening the life of my files.

Regarding the life of my files this should not be construed as substandard in any way. My files get used often in a single day and would likely last a hobbyist a lifetime.

For saddles a well worn, OO or smoother file that's got a nice wood handle (you have to source this and put it together yourself, that's what I did) that's a half round on one side and flat on the other. I'll post a pic if you ask.

You really need two files IME for saddles. One to rough out the shapes and compensation and another much smoother file as above for just touching up the notches in existing saddles AND removing scratches from new saddles and nuts.

Of all the tools that I use in a single day working on guitars files tend to be a personal favorite and something that in time you tend to become very skilled using knowing their strengths and limitations.
Author:  kencierp [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
I am fortunate to have a set of Grobet files - great product but my understanding is they are no longer available. I like the fact that they only cut on the edge which is a consistant thickness, seems to me it would be very easy to end up with a mess using the files that taper along the edge.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
I should add that since my industrial training was as a tool and die maker, I am quite familiar with the varieties of files and their many uses. I have multiple sets of files from tiny to huge, and I keep them clean with appropriate brushes and cleaners. Probably my favorite hand tool for guitar repair and construction. Files WORK, whether you need aggressive or delicate shaping.
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
At work early waiting for a customer driving in from another state.... so I took some pics. In each photo's description is what we use them for.
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
More files:
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Hesh wrote:
More files:

Not to mention the huge box of files that Dave has squirreled away in the storage closet. laughing6-hehe
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
I use the same cheap set of needle files I bought at a hardware store in about 1990. One is a knife point, another is a rounded knife point, and a round pointed one. That and an Exacto saw for nuts. I don't use files for saddles, that all gets done with various grits of sand paper. I'll rough out both nuts and saddles on the belt sander but a nice flat board with sand paper will work, I sill use that to finalize everything.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Hesh, what files did you use for the shop made fret end dressing/bevelling files? You told us, but I can't remember!

Alex
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Alex Kleon wrote:
Hesh, what files did you use for the shop made fret end dressing/bevelling files? You told us, but I can't remember!

Alex


Yes, please. I need to put a set together.
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Hey guys! Our's started life as Nickleson 6" OO files that we scored and knocked in half. Hardware stores, the real ones have drawers of these. Then the edges were safed and shop-made handles were fashioned (mine is BRW so take that Dave...;) ).

The file is glued onto the handle with Medium CA and accelerator and has never come off.

Next we had some idiot.... stand at a metal vice with the new file and file brass for several hours.... Man did that make me tired...

Hope this helps.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Wow cool I never would have thought that CA would hold on a file like that so well.
Author:  david farmer [ Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
It's helpful to sight down the file and glue the convex side out, if there is one.
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Yep, get straight ones and be selective. The hardware store that we like had some choices to go through.

CA (medium with accelerator) has held fine with no issues. The hardest part of these things is not losing them. Dave lost his favorite about 5 years ago and we had to make him new ones.

I should mention on these because the handle extends out into our hands it's very easy to be precise with the fret end bevel and not do radical bevels. Lastly when the file is worn well, this is why we wear ours out initially on purpose these can "skate" on finish but still bite into proud fret ends. A great tool for dry guitars with proud fret ends.
Author:  Woodie G [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
For those that have not updated their file holdings for a few years, Stewmac has discounted their gauged nut files by 30% to those that qualify for their VIP status (if memory serves, over $1000 in orders in the previous year). They have also added four new widths that were sorely needed for bass nut work, and we have these on the bench now...thanks, Stewart-MacDonald!.

On the more general use of files, no tanged file is safely used without a handle, but some outlets choose to either carry just one or two sizes, or mark these essential items up by a few hundred percent over retail pricing. It is not unusual to see an order of magnitude difference in pricing, so worth shopping around a bit.

We commonly use Lutz Skroo-Zon brand handles for nearly all tapered tang files that are used on a frequent basis (so may need sharpening or replacement). The Betty Mills Company offers the full range of Skroo-Zon sizes (from a T3 handle for a 4" double extra slim taper triangular file to a T8 for a 12" cabinet file), and their discounts and prompt shipment of small orders makes them our preferred source. The Skroo-Zon handles are particularly nice for files which might be used both with or without handles, such as for fretboard work - while busy repair shops find it worth while to modify a few mill bastard files for that work, a hobbyist has the option with a threaded, removable handle to allow one file to do double duty.

http://www.bettymills.com/hand-tools-files-file-accessories-lutz-file

For needle files or other round-shanked tools, the temptation is to buy a single handle with collet and play musical files, but Gesswein - our supplier for needle file and other specialty handles - offers lovely little metal-ferruled handles for needle and even tiny escapement files for just over a $1 each, so even a full set of needles can be affordably handled and safely used. These can be had in both 3/8" and 5/8" diameters as cylindrical handles, or contoured handles of two different sizes, so there are affordable options to the pricey Brownell handles.

http://www.gesswein.com/c-133-file-handles.aspx

On files in general, we have given up on the Mexican-made Nicholson files and the Indian or Honduras-made Simonds line and are close to doing the same on GrobetUSA...the EU-made Grobets still seem to be decent tools, but are harder to source than they might have been in the past. It is not that the tools are markedly different in pattern, but more the case of heat treatment and finish work being poorly done or poor quality control (in a box of 12 tapered triangular files, 8 were so warped as to be next to useless for the work). New old stock (NOS) US-made Nicholsons and Simonds are still available through eBay or even older hardware stores, but we've gone to Portuguese-made Balcos (the old stock Swedish ones are rare here in the US, but perhaps more common in the EU) or Italian-made Corradis for new files - both brands have proven to be quite good.

For what it is worth, we are trialing a Corradi Gold machine-stitched rasp in the shop right now, and it looks like it is giving our Logier and Auriou hand-stitched tools a run for most popular with students...at half of what the handmade tools cost.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Quote:
It's helpful to sight down the file and glue the convex side out, if there is one.


It's even more helpful to buy files which are not curved from the heat treating process.
I checked mine on a small granite tool makers surface plate with a set of feeler gages.
If I could fit anything larger than an .003 under the belly or end of the file, I set them aside.
If they passed my inspection for flatness, and lack of twist - I purchased them.
All my handfiles are marked UP on the convex side with magic maker for quick ID during usage.
Author:  ernie [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
Hi woodie my indian rasp from woodcraft and microplane rasp are getting worn .Who is the usa seller for the corradi gold stitched rasp .Thanks ernie
Author:  david farmer [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
I keep a couple of skinny diamond files handy to burn though any plating on hardware. Plating is a file killer.
Attachment:
WIN_20170616_16_49_37_Pro.jpg

On larger files I often use drilled golf balls for handles. Of course they are hard to find and expensive. ;)
Attachment:
WIN_20170616_10_02_57_Pro.jpg

My Grobet nut files were lethal until I scrapped an old piano. The wood capstans gave me 88 new handles!
Attachment:
WIN_20170616_16_51_56_Pro.jpg


I mark up my files like Chris. In addition to marking any crown, files that start tapering only near the tip get a line. Knowing where the apex is helps me control where material gets removed.
Attachment:
WIN_20170616_16_48_30_Pro.jpg



For 15 + years my most used chisel is an old .056" nut file. For every thumb and fore finger task it's perfect. It lives in my nut file holder.
Attachment:
WIN_20170616_10_01_28_Pro.jpg



It's hard to find a good .013"wide mortice chisel any more. :)
A worn nut file makes a good one in a pinch (scarfing in purfling lines).
Attachment:
WIN_20170616_10_02_05_Pro.jpg

Attachment:
WIN_20150909_173117.JPG
Author:  stan thomison [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
I have some great files and other hand tools I have bought from estate sales.

Now I have found that there are specialty tools for this craft. I thought I had sold or at least lost my fret nipper for bound fingerboards.

So I look at Stew Mac and almost buy theirs. Well then I thought maybe could find one on EBay. Nope none of the Stew Mac and LMI has a nice set, but thought would keep on looking. Found a set of Stew Mac knock off set on EBay, for $19.00 bucks or so. They sale a lot of other stuff also. Well get them and start a fret job using Evo gold wire.

The EBay set is garbage. They look like Stew Macs, but cutter sucks and cause a mess. So thinking I know those Stew Mac nippers have to be around, I had my grandson go into the attic and look in some boxes of small tools I have kept over the years. Low and behold, there are the nippers from Stew Mac. Did the job with no more issues.

Yep, for me one gets what they pay for in some of these tools.
Author:  stan thomison [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
I have some great files and other hand tools I have bought from estate sales.

Now I have found that there are specialty tools for this craft. I thought I had sold or at least lost my fret nipper for bound fingerboards.

So I look at Stew Mac and almost buy theirs. Well then I thought maybe could find one on EBay. Nope none of the Stew Mac and LMI has a nice set, but thought would keep on looking. Found a set of Stew Mac knock off set on EBay, for $19.00 bucks or so. They sale a lot of other stuff also. Well get them and start a fret job using Evo gold wire.

The EBay set is garbage. They look like Stew Macs, but cutter sucks and cause a mess. So thinking I know those Stew Mac nippers have to be around, I had my grandson go into the attic and look in some boxes of small tools I have kept over the years. Low and behold, there are the nippers from Stew Mac. Did the job with no more issues.

Yep, for me one gets what they pay for in some of these tools.
Author:  James Orr [ Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Files for set-ups
I did a little fretwork and saw all the other files in my setup drawer. I use the double-edged nut files I mentioned above, but I also really like Stew-Mac's nut seating files, their bridge pin hole files, and the fret end dressing file Hesh mentioned. I used my new "Original" Z-File for the first time today and loved it. Have their fret end beveling file . . .

I have a smoothing file from Lie-Nielsen that I use for all kinds of things, including shaping the nut, ala Hesh. Maybe I'm a rebel, but I don't have a handle for it. ;)
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/