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Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49316		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Marn99 [ Wed May 03, 2017 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
This might sound like it is a "pity me" post, but it isn't, I've reached a lot of dead ends and wanted to ask you all where I should go from here. For the past four years I have been searching for a back and side set of Bois De Rose (Dalbergia maritima) for my dream acoustic. This is one of my favorite rosewood species, as it is just so wildly different from all the others in terms of color and allure, and I have only seen two guitars ever made of it. I do have a small amount of it, but it is for a violin, and some small scraps that I save for the most special of projects. There was a dreadnought set for sale on eBay last year, but it was 2000 to 4000 dollars (I don't quite remember), I started saving, but it sold, which was pretty disheartening. I've contacted Gilmer Woods, they say they will likely never see in back and side sizes ever again, Griffin Exotic Woods doesn't have it in the dimensions either, and those are all the places that I know of that have this wood. Should I just scrap this guitar design?
Author:  J De Rocher [ Wed May 03, 2017 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
What about a three or four-piece back? Assuming width is the only problem.
Author:  Marn99 [ Wed May 03, 2017 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
J De Rocher wrote:
What about a three or four-piece back? Assuming width is the only problem.

Preferably a two piece back, but I can't even find it in the dimensions needed for a 3 piece or 4 piece back, much less the sides.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Wed May 03, 2017 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I've had my eyes peeled for a set of that stuff for a while now. There isn't much left of it in the world and if you come across any it's likely not legally obtained.
Author:  wbergman [ Wed May 03, 2017 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
http://www.filbosnc.it/pageshort.php/it ... 42?lang=en
Author:  Marn99 [ Wed May 03, 2017 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
wbergman wrote:
http://www.filbosnc.it/pageshort.php/it/set-bois-rose/442?lang=en

That is tulipwood from Brazil, the species that I am referring to is Dalbergia maritima, a species from Madagascar. Both of them are called Bois de rose which adds to the confusion.
Author:  Marn99 [ Wed May 03, 2017 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
fingerstyle1978 wrote:
I've had my eyes peeled for a set of that stuff for a while now. There isn't much left of it in the world and if you come across any it's likely not legally obtained.

I know exactly what you're talking about, and it does worry me. My hope is to find a luthier that has some stashed away.
Author:  klooker [ Wed May 03, 2017 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I don't know if he still has it or if he'll sell it.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40676&hilit=+de+rose+
Author:  Marn99 [ Wed May 03, 2017 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
klooker wrote:
I don't know if he still has it or if he'll sell it.

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... =+de+rose+

Wow, those are beautiful sets, doesn't look like some of them have been on in a while though, any way to reach them?
Author:  DennisK [ Thu May 04, 2017 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I still have my set pictured in that thread Kevin linked, but the only thing I might trade it for is a Brazilian set suitable for my dream guitar. Something akin to these, particularly the legendary milagro tree. No sides needed, lower bout 14" or a bit smaller, minimal runout.
Author:  A.Hix [ Thu May 04, 2017 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I have a set or two that I would consider selling. It is quite expensive, though. This is extremely rare stuff, and what I have is about 20 years old.. If you are interested, PM me and we'll discuss it further.
Author:  caribou [ Sat May 13, 2017 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
Yes, I think you wont see "bois de rose" anymore on the market, at least on a legal way. I love it too, the best choice for fingerboards in my opinion.
I had the big chance to find an old furniture made of it (a kind of a weird, and ugly, table). I resawed it to get two back/sides sets (2 pieces back) and some fingerboards (plus those I had the luck to get when I went in Madagascar in 2010). Sadly this particular specie is widely over harvested in an illegal way for the chinese furnitures makers, in fact now it is illegal to cut thoses timbers. So I think that "bois de rose" is now like D. nigra... a wood from the past.
Due to the colonial past, in France we could see it sometimes as barnfind, as I found recently, probably the best way for looking at it.
Author:  Marn99 [ Sun May 14, 2017 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
caribou wrote:
Yes, I think you wont see "bois de rose" anymore on the market, at least on a legal way. I love it too, the best choice for fingerboards in my opinion.
I had the big chance to find an old furniture made of it (a kind of a weird, and ugly, table). I resawed it to get two back/sides sets (2 pieces back) and some fingerboards (plus those I had the luck to get when I went in Madagascar in 2010). Sadly this particular specie is widely over harvested in an illegal way for the chinese furnitures makers, in fact now it is illegal to cut thoses timbers. So I think that "bois de rose" is now like D. nigra... a wood from the past.
Due to the colonial past, in France we could see it sometimes as barnfind, as I found recently, probably the best way for looking at it.

Beautiful stuff you got there, I have a very old live edge (sorta, the bark is gone) piece that I don't know what I am going to do with, it is fingerboard thickness, I am apprehensive about cutting it up for a fingerboard though since I haven't seen a live edge piece of this species since. The sapwood on Dalbergia maritima is very interesting, it is creamy hay colored and very very thin, I think in Madagascar sawyers would hew the sapwood off. I find the illegal importing by china for replica Ming dynasty furniture is horrifying, seeing a noble tree and being poached, illegally exported, and being turned into furniture in a cookie cutter factory setting is disgusting. Rosewood isn't even a great furniture species, it is dense and brittle (easy to chip), changes color with time (especially true with Bois De Rose), it is super sensitive to humidity changes, and not to mention the traditional finish used on Ming dynasty furniture makes the wood so dark it obscures its beautiful red color, so I have no idea why they continue to use it other than it is an ego piece for those in China with the money to buy it. By the way, I noticed you're in France, the correct pronunciation is, phonetically, bwah deh rose, correct?
Author:  caribou [ Sun May 14, 2017 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
Marn99 wrote:
By the way, I noticed you're in France, the correct pronunciation is, phonetically, bwah deh rose, correct?
Yes (well, I think, my english accent and pronunciation is so bad that I can't be sure it is the right prononciation for you) but I don't like this too confusing name. Litteraly, "bois de rose" means "rose wood", the one that in France we called "bois de rose" is Dalbergia frutescens (tulipwood in english I think), from French-Guyana and Brazil. The one we're speaking here, Dalbergia louvelii/maritima, we called it "bois de rose de Madagascar", in Madagascar its french name is "bois d'rose" or its malagasy name voamboana.
In english "rosewood" is a generic name for Dalbergia sp. , in french the generic name is "palissandre"
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Sun May 14, 2017 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I've got some BRW to trade for a set.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun May 14, 2017 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
Rosewood is becoming increasingly scarce. Now that laminated sides have become common place, I wonder how long it will be before laminated backs will be accepted. I have some BRW veneers that would certainly give the "Milagro tree" a run for it's money.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Mon May 15, 2017 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
Laminated sides I don't take issue with at all for the same reasons that Somagyi suggests. Laminated backs though- that's getting into the Martin plastic B & S territory IMO. When I was building my first guitar I got impatient with myself and ordered a $2K Martin. I was absolutely shocked and deeply disappointed when I learned that the back and sides were made of plastic. I'll never buy another Martin again unless is a vintage scrap heap to be restored. Most consumers don't know any better. It's just name recognition but what the hell- might as well buy a dang Ovation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Ken McKay [ Sun May 28, 2017 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I just got a pile for fingerboards. Nice wood. It was cut decades ago and legally purchased.

How are you going to identify it?
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed May 31, 2017 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I am about to buff a guitar with maritima. The taptone is very similar to Brazilian and good Madagascar and the guitar sounds very nice. It is from an old batch that was sold in the US. This tree is extremely light and brittle (mahogany weight, WRC like or even worse durability). If you find one of these you will have to be hyper careful working with it. The sides would need to be veneer like not to snap in dozens of pieces while bending - perhaps supersoft would work for a normal thickness side.

This being said the wood can also be of normal characteristics. I used a bunch of fingerboards from Gilmer, they were like typical IRW in weight but stiffer and no brittleness. Beautiful ziricote style inklines. I also had a couple FBs from another source which were ebony weight and extremely stiff and oily. Wonderful divine smell in those.

The wood is intense dark purple when fresh but soon turns to a deep eggplant color. It looks all but black indoors.

Good luck finding some!
Author:  utarazo [ Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
Ive got a couple, not really looking to part ways with one BUT everything has a price! The backs measure about 6-3/4" at the widest so it would need to have a small wing to accommodate a dread or OM. sides are 4-1/2" and flitch match to the backs, also have matching fingerboard and bridge that all came off the same board. You can email me at - utarazo87@gmail.com

here is the backs -

Image
Author:  caribou [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
Just to make some jealous guys :mrgreen: This morning I resawed the backs in the piece I spoke some messages ago...
Author:  ernie [ Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
C/est palisandre est tres beau . mosieur cherubin
Author:  Sprockett [ Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Looking for a rare & unique rosewood with no luck
I bought a couple of sets years ago, and now I don't want to touch them :)

Have you tried looking for Brazilian Rosewood? You can still find it, I've built a number of guitars with it, and absolutely love it...
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