Here is another way to do it...it's a bit like a snooker cue.
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| Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45606 |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
I'm not sure how to go about it. I want to sand a curved transition from the back of the headstock into the neck and apply rear and front veneers on a neck with a scarf joint. The only idea I have is to leave the head full thickness, glue up the scarf joint, and then thin the back of the head and cut the curve as it meets the neck. Does this make sense, or is there an easier way to do it? Thanks, Dan |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Makes sense to me, if I understand you correctly. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
That is what I have done. Actually the first time was an accident when I thinned the head stock too far. I went a bit more made a nice transition and glued down the veneer. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Are you talking about, I think the common term is back strapping, Dan? Attachment: rsz_img_1411.jpg Glue your finished to final thickness, head plate on. Thickness the back of the head. I use my spindle sander with a fence. Works well for that. Thickness to final thickness including the back material. It is easier to do when the headstock is still square, before the final shape is cut. It rides better in the spindle sander set up. Really, thats about it. Make up a well shaped, cork backed caul for the glue up. Like anything in building, there are other ways. This works for me. I think they spiff up a guitar without a lot of extra work. Cheers |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
I usually do back straps like this. It seems like you need some sort of volute to have a well-defined line otherwise it would look pretty funky. I tried a book matched one like Danny, but when I was bending it, it wanted to open. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Looks great, too. |
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| Author: | nkforster [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Here is another way to do it...it's a bit like a snooker cue.
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| Author: | PeterF [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
nkforster wrote: Here is another way to do it...it's a bit like a snooker cue. Any tips on how to do backstraps like that Nick? I really like that look but I still can't work out how it's done. |
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| Author: | nkforster [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
PeterF wrote: nkforster wrote: Here is another way to do it...it's a bit like a snooker cue. Any tips on how to do backstraps like that Nick? I really like that look but I still can't work out how it's done. It's not so hard. There is a tutorial in my old blog which is available as a free ebook when you sign up to my newsletter. Sign up, get the ebook then unsubscribe (unless you want to buy a guitar!) http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/newsletter/ |
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| Author: | Frank Ford [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Takes a bit of planning, but a nice backstrap can look cool while providing a lot of support, particularly if there is no volute to stop it from running down the back of the neck. I'm particularly fond of the rounded ends on the old Vega and Bacon banjo backstop veneers:  This one is a study in ebony, maple and ivory:  And, here's one from 1910 featuring the scarf joint, long backstrap and some interesting laminations: http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Museum/Banjo/Comet/CometViews/comet9.jpg |
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| Author: | Ken Jones [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
I didn't want to give up my dart-style volute, so here's mine:  It's quite a bit of work, since it's a solid piece of ebony, but I like the look. Ken Jones Mountain Song Guitars |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Thanks, gentlemen! I have a spindle sander, I did not think of using it. Good point to leave the neck square! A volute may make it easier to feather the backstrap edges, I may do that. I'll probably glue with epoxy so the veneer does not swell or soften during sanding. Thanks very much! Dan |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Here's a picture of Birdseye Maple Veneer backstrapped to the back of an Archtop headstock that doesn't have a volute. It's actually a fairly simple process. You need to thin the back of the headstock by the thickness of the veneer being laminated and extend the reduced thickness into the back of the neck (past the first fret in this instance). I laminated this one with Titebond after the headstock was cut to shape (but agree its better to do it prior to cutting the headstock to shape). I laminated it with a flexible caul made from hard rubber backed with thin flexible fiber board wrapped in wax paper. The neck area where the backstrap extends into the back of the neck was thinned using a big rasp and sanded smooth with 80-grit paper. The "V" extending into the neck was feathered with a fine rasp and the edges then perfected with sandpaper. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Thanks Anthony! That looks very nice! Dan |
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| Author: | PeterF [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
nkforster wrote: It's not so hard. There is a tutorial in my old blog which is available as a free ebook when you sign up to my newsletter. Sign up, get the ebook then unsubscribe (unless you want to buy a guitar!) http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/newsletter/ Thanks thats a very interesting read. So basically you have to thin the back of the neck to the exact thickness of the veneer you add on? I guess I could thin the back of the headstock as normal with a drum sander, then thin down the back of the neck with a spokeshave or something to smooth it in. Or is there a more precise way of doing it? Sorry for calling you Nick before btw! I miss-read your user name 
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
So many good looking examples! |
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| Author: | nkforster [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
PeterF wrote: nkforster wrote: It's not so hard. There is a tutorial in my old blog which is available as a free ebook when you sign up to my newsletter. Sign up, get the ebook then unsubscribe (unless you want to buy a guitar!) http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/newsletter/ Thanks thats a very interesting read. So basically you have to thin the back of the neck to the exact thickness of the veneer you add on? I guess I could thin the back of the headstock as normal with a drum sander, then thin down the back of the neck with a spokeshave or something to smooth it in. Or is there a more precise way of doing it? Sorry for calling you Nick before btw! I miss-read your user name There are lots of ways of doing it, I've tried loads. In the end, you just need to remove wood one way or another. I used to thickness the heads on the table saw then blend it in by hand. Here is a video a from Getty images that shows some of the process: I get Nick more than Nigel, so don't worry - I'm used to it! |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
I believe I've got it. I ran the curve about 1/4" past the nut. Now I have to thickness some Mesquite and bend it. Thanks again, fellows! |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
I like the radius part of the volute to be in line, or just a little north of the nut. Most importantly, your tuner will sit on the flat. I've heard it can happen the other way........... in fact I know it can happen. |
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| Author: | gozierdt [ Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
I've done several, most similar to the one DannyV showed. You've got lots of good advice, and your start looks good. The one caution I'll make is to sneak up really slow on the final contours, making sure both sides of the backstrap stay symmetrical. I use a rasp and then a pneumatic drum in my drillpress to get the bulk of the wood removal done, then do the final sanding up the grits using a 1" dowel wrapped in cork, wrapped in sandpaper. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
Thanks, Gene. I'm trying this one without a volute. I have always made volutes because it was fairly easy. I have an SG I can use as a reference. I'm still no good with carving tools, so I'll pretty much use sanding tools. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adding a veneer to the back on a scarf joint neck? |
It works best if you keep the surfaces on the back of the head and on the neck below the transition FLAT, so the only curved part is where the neck and head join. If the outer veneer has any thickness you have to bend it, of course. Make a short caul to fit the curve EXACTLY, and flat cauls when gluing on the head and neck parts.I do this all before carving the neck, of course. I use wedges and my drill press planer except for the curved part. |
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