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Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
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Author:  Nick Royle [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I'm going to be joining a top and back shortly and I was thinking of using the "tape method" for the first time.

It almost seems to good to be true. I used a very simple jig on my previous guitars (which I wasn't too happy with) and I liked the look of Cumpiano's eccentric discs to exert the clamping pressure this time but then I saw mention of the tape method and, frankly, I like to keep things simple so I'm pretty much sold...

Are there any drawbacks? Does anyone think the clamping pressure is inadequate or that there are other reasons not to do it?

And to anyone who does use it with satisfactory results, can I ask which tape you use? I've got lots of masking tape I can test out but a heads-up would be useful! (I'd rather not have to source the binding tape LMI and Stewmac use if I can use another general purpose tape.)

Thanks in advance,
Nick
Author:  James Orr [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I taped on all but my most recent guitar using LMI's binding tape and HHG. Works great. I didn't like peeling all that tape off, but it works great.

The only real downside is needing to be pretty careful with thin panels, making sure they lay perfectly flat so you don't have to get rid of too much material cleaning them up or take care of any lips.

I'm using LMI's plate joining jig now and prefer it. If you do a search, you can find all the tapers heckling me about it ;)
Author:  Nick Royle [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
:D I'm sure that Tapers and Jiggers can coexist peacefully!

Is LMI's binding tape much more adhesive than frog tape and the like? I saw Chris Paulick (sp?) using Scotch 234 - is that just general masking tape?
I'll be using Titebond again this time but will probably be using HHG on my next guitar.

And I'll make sure to get the plates flat and level. Cheers for the warning!

Todd,
So you use both methods at once? Would you not be confident in the tape method without tapping wedges?

Thanks to both!
Author:  Nick Royle [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I'm just the kind of person to be OCD over joints myself but I'm still so green that I'm genuinely surprised just to get an acceptable fit! :lol:

The idea of one less jig appeals but if the tape method produces a visibly inferior joint maybe I'll reconsider.

The 3M stuff all has long lead times or is delivered from overseas, I'm hoping this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50m-x-25mm-Glass-Fibre-Reinforced-Mono-Filament-Packing-Strapping-Parcel-Tape-/130924294511?pt=UK_Packaging_Materials&var=&hash=item1e7bb2316f will do.

Thanks, Todd!
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Seems too good to be true every time I do it :D
I use HHG and blue masking tape. Seems even better for it than LMI binding tape, being thinner so the panels lay flatter.

Pros:
*Quick and easy.
*No jig eating up shop space between uses.
*No time spent setting up clamps, so no worries about hide glue gelling.
*Tape along the seam keeps the show face clean, so you don't have to scrape any glue off.

Cons:
*Risk of peeling up wood fibers when you remove the tape. Shellac the surface before jointing if this is an issue (hasn't been for me).
*Uses up tape. Not really an issue for the low production rate of hand building.
*Less clamping pressure than other setups. Not an issue with a good joint. My seams are pretty much invisible. Maybe there's another level of perfection above mine if Todd says so, but it's definitely splitting hairs.
*Makes other setups look overcomplicated.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Sounds great to me, Dennis! The last con is so true!
Consider me a taper! :D i'll have to check the seam against my last one and see if there is any difference.

Is this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230820917174 the same blue tape I always hear mentioned?
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Plus 2 or 3 or 4 on what Dennis said, shellac the area to be tapped. I use regular old masking tape, the wide stuff, because I find its elasticity to be beneficial. I've used all kinds of glues for this job, LMI White, Titebond, and epoxy. I think I will use fish glue on the next one since I've just become acquainted with this fine product recently.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Haha! I'm a quote machine but I must confess I'd never heard that one (showing my ignorance of Voltaire). Just checked it up. Learn something new every day!
I'm ordering the strapping tape and the blue tape and I'll see which I like. I certainly like the idea of a tear-proof binding tape though!

Many thanks!

And thanks, jf, I'm very tempted by fish glue myself having read the recent thread about it!
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Tapers - How many pieces? Are you talking three pieces or a piece every quarter inch?
Author:  grumpy [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
5 or 6 strips is all you need.

You --want-- a tape with a lot of stretch; stretch is the "spring" that makes a taped joint work. With that in mind, only push-down the ends of the tape, not the whole length.
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Mike Lindstrom wrote:
Tapers - How many pieces? Are you talking three pieces or a piece every quarter inch?

3 or 4 strips across, then add the long strip down the center. When applying the across strips, tilt one of the plates up a bit and stretch the tape across, so it pulls some tension on the tape when you let it down.

My tape is #2090... not sure what the difference is from that #3434. Probably all works about the same.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I've used a car paint masking tape for years. just 4 or 5 strips along the joint, HHG. I seriously doubt that you can get it any tighter. I don't bother with the tape along the length of the joint. I simply stick the tape to one board and stretch the tape across to the other board. It's not even the tent method. You don't need large amounts of pressure if the joint is up to it. I've even done very successful rubbed joints but aligning thin boards proved to be tricky. The tape method is easy, simple and you don't need a clamping jig cluttering up the workshop. I don't shellac the plates but it's very unlikely that it's going to tear out deep pieces of spruce. If the Tops were near to final thickness I'd shellac the surface. Not all masking tapes are the same though. The stuff I buy has certainly got a bit of stretch to it, other masking tapes do not. I also use the same tape for binding.
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I use the cheap hardware store tape - it doesn't stick as well and is less likely to tear out fibers. I place a strip along the length, flip the top over and "tent" the two halves to run the glue in, lay the top flat, stretch 4-6 strips of tape across the top, flip it over, 4-6 strips across the back, a spring clamp on the top and bottom (at the joint) and hang it up so air can circulate on both sides. I usually do several at a time.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
grumpy wrote:
5 or 6 strips is all you need.

You --want-- a tape with a lot of stretch; stretch is the "spring" that makes a taped joint work. With that in mind, only push-down the ends of the tape, not the whole length.


Yup that's the way I do it too.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I am going to reiterate what everyone else has said already, but have not been posting much, so I felt like adding my two cents.

I use the blue painters tape available at literally every hardware store here in the US. Align the jointed edge of the two boards, then tip one plate up on something so the unjoined edge is about 2-3 inches off of the work board. Then, apply the tape to each board so that the center of the tape does not touch the plates, only the ends of the tape should be touching the wood so that you have about 2 inches of tape on each plate then a 2-3 inch gap where the tape is not touching the plates in the center. I space the tape about 2-3 inches apart, so it takes 5-6 strips of tape to join the plates. Once I apply the glue and close the joint, I flip the whole thing over and make sure my joint is flat and that I am getting a decent amount of glue squeeze out along the joint. I then add more tape to pull the joint tight/ tighter. Another 4-5 strips maybe. I pretty much copy Chris Paulick's video. Which would have been easier to write than all of the nonsense I wrote here.
Author:  Goodin [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Here is a great article from Hesh on how how to do the tape method:

http://www.lenaweelutherie.info/page6/p ... age18.html
Author:  James Orr [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Nick Royle wrote:
:D I'm sure that Tapers and Jiggers can coexist peacefully!


Haha, yes. After catching up on the self-taught craftsman thread, I'll just point out the (hopefully) obvious and note that my joke was indeed meant in jolly.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Quote:
my joke was indeed meant in jolly
And taken as such, I'm sure! :)

And thanks to Tony and Gil for their input, making this thread an even better resource!
Author:  Tai Fu [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I tried to join the top on my current build with tape 3 times, for whatever reason the joint would not close up at certain points, I gave up and clamped some wood beams on my workbench, and made the top slightly tapered, and simply wedged it in. It worked beautifully and the clamping pressure can be pretty good with that setup. I've done tape method many times before that and never had an issue, I've even repaired broken tops using tape and hide glue and it worked beautifully, not sure what went wrong this time.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
i´ve used several tape brands and types (including cheapo hardware store tape) with HHG and they all worked OK - provided they have nice grab. Tape that has some stretch has an advantage, but as others have pointed, if the join is good the tape itself won´t ruin it. Lately i´v been using some Tesa flexible masking tape for curved surfaces, works a charm.
This said, i believe i´ll move to the wedges method on future builds - less waste.
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
"less waste."
Masking tape is reusable - I will wrap it around a jar and then on top of itself to make a new "roll" of tape. It is slightly less sticky, but often that is a good thing. It doesn't take much longer to do this than to ball it up and throw it away. And yes, I am a cheapskate! [:Y:]
Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
That´s actually a nice idea Clay - the kind i usually overlook. Thanks!
Author:  Deferr [ Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
I found this video that seems to explain it well. https://youtu.be/F4X6Ezi8UW8


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  DanKirkland [ Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Deferr wrote:
I found this video that seems to explain it well. https://youtu.be/F4X6Ezi8UW8


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Resurrected a 7 YEAR OLD thread.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Joining using tape method: Pros and Cons? Which Tape?
Yeah and 7 years ago I see I commented. I have since changed my ways and have gone back to my clamping jig. The only top joint I have ever had failed was one done with the tape method so I will never use it again. And it's so simple to set this jig up. Just 3 sets of wedges, a back stop and something to hold everything flush from the top.

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