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CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
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Author:  Chuck Gilbert [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
I've built 30+ guitars with Sitka but this is the first time for Red Spruce. I sealed as I always do but the CA I used on the rosette and bindings has left a very ugly greenish-yellow stain that is not sanding out. Is this top ruined? Is there a way to remove the stain?

Thanks,
Chuck
Author:  Tom West [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
Chuck: CA soaks into the end grain and is not just sitting on top. You have to seal end grain before using. Not sure how to help you.
Tom
Author:  Chuck Gilbert [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
I did seal the end grain with vinyl sealer (2 coats) as I always have on Sitka and I've never seen anything like this. As I said, it's my first Adirondack top and I'm wondering if there's something different with it as opposed to Sitka. I guess I could keep sanding until I get rid of the stain or ruin the top, whichever comes first. At this point, I'm considering re-topping anyway as I would never try to sell it as it is. Thanks for the reply, Tom.
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
I've had that happen on two red spruce tops. The second time I thought I had taken proper precaution by sealing the end grain with shellac, but the lesson learned was to seal the crap out of it. I now do three fairly heavy coats of shellac, and no longer have any problems.

It's worth mentioning that I've seen the greening effect on several extremely high-end, big-name guitars. I was shocked that they would pass that off on their customers.


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
Oh, and unfortunately it can't be sanded out. What brand of ca were you using?


Ken Jones
Mountain Song Guitars
Author:  Mike Collins [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
Red spruce has larger vessels to carry sap up from the
roots.
This because there is NO old growth like with Sitka.
If you can recut the binding or rosette channels a bit wider to
get to fresh unstained wood that would help.
Or a finish that is dark enough to hide it.
Mike
ALSO use shellac for a sealer-it works better.
Mix your own.
www.shellac.net
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
Use yellow/green in your purfling and tell everyone it was deliberate.....

Dave F.
Author:  ChuckB [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
I had this happen on an Adi topped OM I built a while back with not enough coats of shellac on the end grain. Luckily, it was more of an ugly yellow stain, which is no longer visible since the top naturally turned amber. My experience is also similar in that I have never had a problem with Sitka.
I have also switched to Starbond CA...not sure if that makes any difference.

Chuck
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
I once had this happen on a Norway spruce top. I flipped it over and fit a new rosette. I reinforced the sound hole area with a donut cut from off cuts, glued at right angle to top grain, and covering the stained area. You wouldn't know, or see, the difference. (I've used sound hole donuts ever since).
Author:  Terry Burke [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
I had the same problem, I added a couple more BWB rings to the rosette and hid the stain. Plan B wold have been to rout out the existing rosette and add a larger one. I was lucky in that my stain wasn't close to the sound hole edge.
Author:  John Arnold [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
Quote:
there is NO old growth like with Sitka.

Actually, there is, and it behaves just the same as the wide grain when it comes to discoloration from CA.
This first happend to me in 1993 on an Engelmann top guitar. After that, I just changed to using Duco cement for all wood rosettes and purfling. I still use CA for celluloid binding. I glue the purfling on first, using a 1/16" thick polyethylene strip in place of the binding. After the Duco sets, I remove the poly strip and install the binding with medium viscosity CA.
Incidentally, I saw that Engelmann-topped guitar again last year, and the greenish-yellow discoloration had totally disappeared.

Old growth red spruce:

Image

Image
Author:  Chuck Gilbert [ Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CA Glue Stain on Red Spruce Top
Thanks to all for the replies. The glue that I have been using is called "Stick Fast". I got it at Woodcraft and I have used it on the last 5 or 6 guitars with no problem - I really like it. My lesson here is to do a better job sealing or, especially in the case of the rosette, use a different glue.

Thanks,
Chuck
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