Michael.N. wrote:
It's you.
They are specifically targeting James W B?
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| Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40627 |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5d5 ... 6bcc5ed0a6 |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Why don't they just get it over with and put EVERYTHING on the Cites list. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
So then, does that mean it will be impossible to get coco sets, or merely more difficult? For instance, would I, in Canada , be able to order coco from Madinter, or do I need to find someone within Canafa? |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Appendix 2 means you have to get a special license each time you want to harvest a tree and then sell a log, board, or veneer to some other country. That means that sets cutfor guitar are going to be expensive, especially for the best material. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
What schedule is braz on? |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Appendix 1 and illegal to trade. |
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| Author: | KHageman [ Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
I can't imagine anyone being surprised by this news. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
So schedule 2 woods will still be available, just more expensive? |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
More money to regulators and the people that write regulations. Less money for us. Just like everything else. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
It could also mean that the woods (or trees) concerned have now become scarcer and are in further danger of becoming extinct, at least on a commercial basis. Let's face it, our Guitars aren't quite as important as the survival of the trees themselves. Unless of course you firmly believe that man is incapable of plundering nature to the point where species become extinct. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
It is a very complicated issue and there are no easy answers or solutions. The alternative is to have zero restrictions and I'm pretty sure that outcome won't be a good one either. At least placing a wood on Cites might focus a few minds. That is the consequence it had for myself. I began to look at the alternatives and began to question the belief that one could only make a great Guitar out of Brazilian Rosewood and an ebony fretboard. In fact the best sounding Guitar that I've made over the last 3 or 4 years used Cherry Back/Sides with an Oak fretboard. I've also done a number of blind listening tests. Some with my own Guitars and some using other makers. The range of woods has been wide, probably 6 or 7 different Back/Side sets. It just might surprise some how difficult it is to pick out that Brazilian Rosewood Guitar from one made of Maple. It's obvious when you have your eyes open, not so when you are blindfolded. I'm not doing these test alone either. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
The concern is placing things on CITES would only encourage poaching, since the higher price of the wood means that it is more lucrative to poach them. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Tai Fu wrote: The concern is placing things on CITES would only encourage poaching, since the higher price of the wood means that it is more lucrative to poach them. As Michael.N. says, what would be the result if there were no resctrictions? Some areas have already been over logged illegally (and legally) before Cites. At least it makes people think about the problem, and (hopefully) slows it down - "Better to light a single candle than curse the darkness" |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
FWIW for the past few years my suppliers have been telling me that cocobolo is being cut and sold at an alarming rate. Whether CITES is the solution or not I do not know, but it sounds like something definitely needs to be done to slow things down. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
But honestly I won't really work on cocobolo without a hefty upcharge. I have enough problem with dust control in my shop (no matter what I do dust goes everywhere, and I can't really find good dust control solutions that work) and the poisonous nature of cocobolo means I don't really want to gamble with my health. I don't know what can be done, no regulation is bad but too much regulation means the wood will have a higher value and that makes poaching more attractive. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
I know, if it weren't for CITES God help the elephants and other creatures. It just seems to me though that even woods that aren't close to being extinct are being put on CITES. It's as if officials are saying, Let's see. What's selling good lately...Oh look! there's an abundance of Cocobolo! Let's put THAT one on the list!" I mean, is Pink Ivory on CITES? No, and it's rarer than diamonds! There's not enough in trade to warrant CITES tax scrutiny, since there wouldn't be much money raised. Which is rarest, Pink Ivory or Cocobolo?! |
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| Author: | KHageman [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Today, per a wood supplier, the cost of Cocobolo going on the CITESII list will have little affect on the price compared to China sucking up all the lumber worldwide at an alarming rate. In 2012 China imported 305 of all lumber exported worldwide. Another 10% can be added to this figure for illegal logging (about 200,000 shipping containers). Ethics in this Far East country have always been a little suspect. Now we know!! |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
305 what, logs? I know it's not 305% 'cuz that would be impossible. And I'm sure the price will go up considerably as well. As a matter of fact, there's a wood seller warning about that on his website. It's almost as if HE can't wait either, LOL! |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
30% becomes 305 if your finger slips off the caps key. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Ah. |
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| Author: | James W B [ Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Is it just me or does it seem like guitar builders are being targeted. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
It's you. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Michael.N. wrote: It's you. They are specifically targeting James W B?
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| Author: | KHageman [ Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Sorry for not proofreading my post. It is 30% of all imported lumber goes to China. Another fact about China. They look the other way on illegal imports, but have a very strict policy when it comes to using their own forests. Not to long ago they went a a tree planting campaign to reforest parts of China. It is illegal to do any clear cutting of any forest in China. Penalties are severe!!! But deforesting the rest of the world. No problem. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Madinter's Notice on new CITES Appendix 2 Species. |
Yeah. BTW here's a river in Indonesia that 500 factories dump $h!t into daily. Next time someone tells you there's a garbage patch floating in the pacific ocean and tries to tell you it's OUR fault, remind them that THIS river flows to the ocean, OUR garbage gets buried under land fills and they become golf courses. |
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