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I hate it when that happens!
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Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon May 27, 2013 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  I hate it when that happens!
HI all,

Just need to blow some steam out...

A customer brought an old Guild for a bridge coming loose. He actually wanted me to make a new bridge since it got replaced a while back and the guitar never sounded good to him afterward. The guy is from far away (came by plane), is in town for a friend's wedding, and is leaving on Tuesday.

All was going well until I notice the neck was cracked at the headstock level, from the nut going down the neck for about 2 inches. Something I didn't notice when he brought the guitar, probably since the string tension kept the crack closed. So I announced him that his guitar as a new problem, and I have no way of prooving that I'm not responsible for that. To make things worst, I accidentally bumped his guitar TWICE right after taking it out of the case, so I probably didn't appear too careful to his view.

Now the neck is fixed but the crack is pretty visible.

My guess is that the crack occured in the transport, but I have no way to prove it...

I wrote him an email as soon as I noticed, and the only thing I got from him is a sad smiley... :(

He will pick-up his guitar tomorrow. I'll keep you informed.

Thanks for listening...
Author:  Mike Baker [ Mon May 27, 2013 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
That sux! Hope all goes well tomorrow, and that he has a good attitude. I usually examine an instrument really well before I take it for repairs, but sometimes you can miss stuff, especially when things are under string tension.
Most customers are pretty good about stuff like that. My guess is that since he's scheduled to leave tomorrow, though he might be upset, he'll come to an understanding with you.
Good luck.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon May 27, 2013 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Bummer.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Mon May 27, 2013 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Alain;
why is the neck crack so visible?
Did you use a water base glue that swelled the area?

If so sand with 800-1000 grit and French polish that area.
OF course you will need to re-stain if you sand to the wood.

Good luck
Mike
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon May 27, 2013 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Thanks for the tip Mike, but I'm afraid it is more complicated than that.

First off, the neck is maple, which explains partly why the crack shows so much (also, I used PVA glue, which indeed might have made things swell). But mostly, somehow parts of the lacquer chiped out around the crack when I cleaned up the glue squeeze out. I don't know why, this never happened to me before. I'm guessing the crack being new (that's a guess), some parts of the finish around the crack might have been more fragile and were bound to chip out sooner or later, and I just accelerated this.

In any case, I'm not going to risk making it worst (which is often the case when trying to fix finishing issues), especially when I'm not even responsible for this in the first place.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon May 27, 2013 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Serves as a warning. It's all well and good taking on repairs but if the instruments are of any value make sure you have some sort of liability cover, otherwise it can get a bit messy. Accidents do happen. Not a lot you can do about this situation. Just hope that the customer agrees that the crack happened prior to the Guitar being in your hands. It can be a very awkward situation to be in.

On a lighter note I'm reminded of a supposedly true story that happened in a Violin restorers establishment. A customer came in to collect his $30,000 Violin that had been in for minor set up work. On taking the Violin off the rack the shop worker turned and promptly impacted the Violin soundboard on the sharp edge of a display cabinet. In a rather nonchalant and brazen manner he turned to the customer and said: 'Oh not to worry about that, we fix dents and cracks here too'.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon May 27, 2013 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Michael.N. wrote:
Serves as a warning.


You bet! I've got my nose in my insurrance documents, I can tell you that!

Although I don't think the customer will be willing to fight this too much, legally speaking, as he lives in Jamaica and he is leaving tomorrow night right after taking his guitar (I'm in Montreal). But with the internet being what it is, an unhappy customer can do a lot of damage even if he is that far away.

Hope thing go well tomorrow!
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon May 27, 2013 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Hopefully he'll have a cool head....
Author:  ernie [ Tue May 28, 2013 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
c/est point cadeaux
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue May 28, 2013 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
I always give a customer an estimate of the work with the possibility that if while I am in there doing my thing and notice something else then I will call them before continuing on with the work. It is sort of like setting the stage for disaster up front. It's also a valuable lesson for customers as to how complicated the guitar is as a whole system and that one visible problem can also have several underlying issues that are related to it. I've never had anyone complain when I've run into these situations.

It happens, good luck...
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Tue May 28, 2013 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
ernie wrote:
c/est point cadeaux

No it's not, indeed!

jfmckenna wrote:
I always give a customer an estimate of the work with the possibility that if while I am in there doing my thing and notice something else then I will call them before continuing on with the work. It is sort of like setting the stage for disaster up front. It's also a valuable lesson for customers as to how complicated the guitar is as a whole system and that one visible problem can also have several underlying issues that are related to it. I've never had anyone complain when I've run into these situations.

It happens, good luck...

Thanks. Most of the customer that come in also mention up front to let them know if I find something else. I guess it's more because I bumped the guitar while the customer was in front of me that I'm worried he might put the blame on me. Maybe I'm just worrying too much, I'll know later today when he comes and to pick it up.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Tue May 28, 2013 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
ernie wrote:
c/est point cadeaux


I don't speak French, but I don't think murder is the way to go.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Tue May 28, 2013 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Tony_in_NYC wrote:
I don't speak French, ...

Indeed you don't!

What Ernie said is a french canadian expression, which means if I translate word to word: "It's no gift!" We use this to illustrate something troublesome.
Author:  ernie [ Tue May 28, 2013 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Alain merci pour le translation en anglais.
Author:  ZekeM [ Tue May 28, 2013 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Tony_in_NYC wrote:
ernie wrote:
c/est point cadeaux


I don't speak French, but I don't think murder is the way to go.

hehehehe reminds me of Peter griffin speaking Italian.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Tue May 28, 2013 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Alain Moisan wrote:
Tony_in_NYC wrote:
I don't speak French, ...

Indeed you don't!

What Ernie said is a french canadian expression, which means if I translate word to word: "It's no gift!" We use this to illustrate something troublesome.


I might have a violent streak that made me think you we're discussing murder. Also I used a bad translation program. Darn you Bing!!!
Author:  ernie [ Tue May 28, 2013 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Explanation .Some things are better explained depending on the situation in a non-english language..My quebecois one liner aptly describes en francais his state of affairs viz the guitar. and the customer. Although this hasn/t happened to me in repair, I/ve definitely had some repair customers from hell e.g. even if it/s not your fault, it/s your problem/fault.Ps Tony I don/t think you can blame it on bingo?? maybe vino ?? or the goat??bliss
Author:  Mike Collins [ Tue May 28, 2013 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Alain:
Are you sure the finish is lacquer?
If so sand the area with 600or higher grit.

Not a wide area just the broken finish area.Then apply Acetone or Lac. thinner to the area.
This should soften the finish.

Then if you need to stain do it now.
Then do a drop fill of Medium C.A.
Depending how thick the finish is you may need to do a few fills.
Use accelerator carefully.
Then sand level & polish.

I hope this helps but not seeing the crack & finish
I'm making a educated guess.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Tue May 28, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Thanks for the tips Mike, this is pretty much what I had in mind when I toyed with the idea of fixing the finishing issue. But like I said, I don't want to risk making it worst (which is always possible), specially since the customer should arrive anywhere between now and 2 hours from now. To add to that, after picking up his guitar he's going strait to the airport to take a plane back to Jamaica. I can't exactly ask him to leave the guitar with me just a few more days...

And I know it's lacquer because it's a 30 years old Guild, and the finish reacted to the acetone test I did under a tuner.
Author:  ZekeM [ Tue May 28, 2013 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Hmmm what is this acetone test you speak of???
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Tue May 28, 2013 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Place a small drop of acetone on a hidden area of the finish (like under a tuner), and watch if it disolves the finish. If it does, it should be nitro lacquer. (Or maybe french polish, but that is pretty rare for manufactured guitars).
Author:  ZekeM [ Tue May 28, 2013 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Nice! That's good to know! Thanks :)
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Tue May 28, 2013 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Well, my customer just left with his guitar.

All ends well. He didn't seem to think I was responsible for the break, and he actually thanked me for keeping him informed.

I'm going to get a beer now...

Cheers!
Author:  mkellyvrod [ Tue May 28, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
Sounds like it worked out well. Enjoy the beer (or two).
Author:  Colin North [ Tue May 28, 2013 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I hate it when that happens!
I've been on tenderhooks all day!
Cheers. Eat Drink
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