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I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31403		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  MikeyV [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
So, first build, all from scratch, using hide glue.

Last night, I glues on one quarter of the kerfing, and the clamps I used did not hold the thin edge of the kerfing down well. The rim side of the kerfing looks great, but on the inside, you can slip a buisness card up into the joint half way! in some places.

Needless to say, I'm not happy with the glue-up. I've remedied my clamping deficency by ordering kerfing clamps from LMI. this should fix that problem moving forward.

To fix the already installed kerfing, I figure I have 3 choices...
1) Remove the kerfing and replace it. I'm leaning towards this. Could I separate the kerfing with a small spatula and hot water? Would this make a huge gloopy mess?
2)Wick some ca into the void to fill and reinforce it.
3) fit some wedged shims into the void and glue them in.

It's the top rim, so you wouldn't really be able to see it normally.

I'd like to do #1, but not if it's gonna look like hell. The hide glue seems to wash off pretty well, is this the case after it's dried for a day or two?

Thanks for the suggestions.
Mike
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
Remove it now. The quicker you get to it, the easier the hide glue will let go. Use heat from a paint stripper or a househould iron.
Author:  MikeyV [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
So are you guys saying do it dry? No need to drop water into the void to soften the glue?

Thanks a million, I'll take it off tonight!
Author:  DennisK [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
Hide glue is quite heat-resistant when dry. You'll need to at least drop some water on it.

I use boiling water for hide glue removal. Just take it over the kitchen sink, and keep basting it with water while you pull it off bit by bit. Although the hair dryer method may result in less warping due to not soaking it as thoroughly.

Hide glue washes off well with hot water, plus it sticks to itself even if there is some residue left, so you should be good to go again with the same parts once you get it disassembled and dried out.

These are the kind of situations why I say hide glue is one of the most beginner-friendly :)
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
If you used HHG there is absolutely no need to remove the linings. Use some hot water and a heat gun (alcohol lamp if you're a traditionalist) and re-clamp as you go along, re-heat and re-clamp as necessary.
HHG does not seem the right choice for linings, unless you do small sections at a time.
If it's triangular kerfed linings it helps to cut up a bunch of 3 and 4 kerfs cauls and use them with 1" spring clamps.
Author:  MikeyV [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
I've glued the linings on in 4 segments per side, and it's a 00 size guitar. I was afraid to glue the whole thing on with HHG, so I did it in segments.
Author:  nickton [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
I can't use clothes pins. Those metal green tipped ones from Home depot are much better IMO. But I'm still pretty new.
Author:  MikeyV [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
The green tipped ones were the ones I used. They're perfectly NON ideal, as far as I'm concerned. They're not deep enough, the angles are wrong, and the cause the kerfing to clamp tight at the rim, and loose on the inner lip. Plus, if you push them down too far, the metal digs into the wood and mungs it up. Want to buy 48 of them? cheap!

Thanks for all the help everyone. As this is a learning experience, I think I'll take them off and re-apply them correctly.
:)
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
MikeyV wrote:
The green tipped ones were the ones I used. They're perfectly NON ideal, as far as I'm concerned.
They're perfect: go buy 3/8" (I think) tubing and cut it into pieces to cover one end of the spring clamps. Also get some good 1" spring clamps for tight areas like the upper bout or the waist where you need more pressure.
Author:  MikeyV [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
Well, I checked it out last night. I tried loosening the glue with a little hot spatula. Things were glued on pretty tight! Turns out, I could only push the spatula up underneath the linings by about 3/16", much less than I thought. The spatula is paper thin.
what I noticed this morning is that the area I tried to get off is glued better than it was before.
So now, I think I'm gonna try Laurent's suggestion. Heat it up and work some hto water in the joint, then reclamp and see how it goes.

Worst case is that the guitar explodes and I make sure to put the linings on better next time.
Author:  MikeyV [ Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I've Glued the Kerfing on Poorly :(
I've completed re-gluing the linings. I took Laurent's advice (thanks!) and used some hot water, a hair dryer, a little spatula and some cauls to re-glue the inside lip down. It worked great, and I didn't make a mess!

I also glued the rest of the linings on, and using a combination of the green clamps and the special ones from LMI did a great job of holding them down correctly.

Thanks for the help gentlemen. It's been invaluable.
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