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First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25225		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  stardogcustoms [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
Hi,
My name is Carl, and I just joined the forum today. I've spent hours searching the web (and this forum) for info/specs on proper tuner/machine head hole locations for the neck I am working on. I'm doing a 3+3 tuner layout on 25.5" scale guitar (Strat body style with a LP-type neck, sort of a PRS looking guitar), and I am curious...

Can I put the tuners on the headstock anywhere, as long as they fit my design and are pleasing to my eye, or do they have to be perfectly in line vertically and horizontally? Will the tuner placement affect tuning, playability, string height or intonation? I am planning a very contoured original shape, and would like the middle pair of tuners to be somewhat closer together than the top and bottom pair, forming an arch. I've tried looking for templates to no avail. I've found a few photos that I could tinker with in Photoshop to fit my headstock, but I'm worried it won't be right or will affect scale or intonation or something.

I'm not planning anything too radical, but I've designed every millimeter of this guitar to my peculiar specs, and I'd like to not screw something up this close to being done. If there is a rule of thumb for these, would someone be kind enough to share?

Thank you - Carl from Texas
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
Welcome Carl...from a fellow Texan!
Good for you, planning it all out. You're doing the right thing.
You won't change intonation by tuner placement, and probably not the tuning.
You won't want the strings to touch the neighboring tuner posts as they travel by, and that can be determined by simply drawing the peghead to scale.
I'm not so used to an electric guitar's layout as an acoustic.
But keep in mind not only functionality, but "plausibility".
Carefully measure a PRS peghead to see their solution, and then see if you can work your own design with those parameters. I mean, will it look "acceptable" to the eye, within those norms that are accepted? Stray too far, and your peghead will be viewed by others as an oddity, while they say a few polite, but unmeant, compliments.
Whatever, don't run your tuners too close to the end of the peghead, so that the buttons (and tuners) look unsupported by the mass of the head. I hope that makes sense.
Again, draw it all out. Put that down, and come back to the drawing after a night's rest. If you still like it, make it so.

Steve
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
The tuner placement will work as long as the strings won't touch each other and it is pleasing .Martin has the lower 4 squared off then the upper 2 tapered out . I like them even to the taper myself . Draw them out scale with tuner posts and nut placement , It tis easy to erase pencil .
Author:  stardogcustoms [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
Thanks Steve - Nacogdoches is a nice town. I visited there a lot as a kid (that's where my orthodontist was located). A PRS headstock tuner placement layout is amazingly close to what I'm going for (not so much the pointy headstock, though), and I will see if I can find someone locally that will let me examine their PRS. We have a Guitar Center about 20 miles from here, but I can't stand being in there for long, and I doubt they'd let me bring in measuring devices and a pen, paper and digital camera.

So thanks for the info - it was exactly what I was looking for. My guitar is the product of years of falling in love with bits of other guitars I've loved and wanted to own, but never could. When it's done, it'll be a one-of-a-kind, that's for sure. I'll definitely post photos here.

Take care Steve - Carl from the tiny little town of Kountze (near Beaumont)
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
An easy way to do this is find a photo online of a Les Paul or PRS headstock and use whatever photo manipulation software you have to bring it up to actual headstock size and print this out as a template for tuner placement. You can then make whatever small adjustments to the location of the tuners to work with your headstock.

Fred
Author:  the Padma [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
stardogcustoms wrote:
do they have to be perfectly in line vertically and horizontally? Will the tuner placement affect tuning, playability, string height or intonation? I am planning a very contoured original shape, and would like the middle pair of tuners to be somewhat closer together than the top and bottom pair, forming an arch. I've tried looking for templates to no avail.

Thank you - Carl from Texas


Yo, Carl from Texas,

you can stick them were ever you want... laughing6-hehe

but

best the stings don't rub the posts of other tuners.

the for aft ark on a head stock (if there is one) is low enough so that no strings rub on the head plate

the top of the tuner post holes must be below the nut or zero fret. me prefer a min 1/16 from top of the hole to the fulcrum of the zero of bridge.

tuning, sting height and intonation will not be affected.

However playability regarding the tension and the string compliance will, depending were you place them in relation ship to the nut/ zero fret.

Here you have to make a decision...tight strings and short bend to reach a desired pitch. OR soft easy to press down but long stretch to get that bend up to pitch when stretching on them strings. Rule of thumb ...longer after lengths...softer the string feel when cording.... shorter after length...stiffer but much shorter disstance to bend accross the fret by comparison. So decide now on how this ax is to be played, a corded rhythemer or a screaming banchie. bear this in mind for your bridge after length as well.

and me won't hold it against you that you from Texas, me assume thats the Republic of TX no?


blessings
the
Padma
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
Bear in mind that the gibson headstock with its splayed out D and G may not be the best model. The are renouned for snagging strings on the nut and hence giving tuning problems when bending.
You can get around this with careful nut work but it is not ideal
Author:  George L [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
I've never seen any mention of string length beyond the nut and saddle influencing playability or string tension. (Not that me disbelieving the Padma, it's just me only understand every third or fourth word you is writing.) Can anyone on a slightly lower plane of existence offer any additional info?

Carl,
Sorry for the possible hijack. Welcome to the forum! I was in Texas for a couple of days last August. Hot? You betcha! I had an excellent plate of tacos there.
Author:  the Padma [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
George L wrote:
I've never seen any mention of string length beyond the nut and saddle influencing playability or string tension. (Not that me disbelieving the Padma, it's just me only understand every third or fourth word you is writing.) Can anyone on a slightly lower plane of existence offer any additional info?





Oh George L

I am so very sorry to hear you can't comprehend English....It is truly unfortunate that the United States of America has no official language and as such has been bastardizing the Queens English making communicating with the rest of the planet somewhat difficult. Just one of them oh wells.

Now regarding any one else offering additional info on tension and compliance, well yes there are lots of posts to this concept...go here..

[url].viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24422&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a[/url]

In this thread you will find several explicitly clear, and in English to boot, posts on the topic. Alan Carruth and David Stewart both have posted to the topic. Alan writes in a clear technical style and of course David, being a Canadian employs the Queens English. So you should have no problems in comprehension of such a simple concept. However if I were one of these two highly respected and professional luthiers I would be personally offended to know that you would relegate them, their
knowledge and their wisdom to a "lower plane of existence" than the rest of us 2 legged chickens scratching around on this planet.

Blessings
the
Padma
Author:  George L [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
Dear the Padma,
Thank you for the link. That is an interesting thread and very informative. By the wording and tone of your response it seems that you were offended by my post. If that is so, I apologize. Your comments are often quite jocular and entertaining and my intent was to mirror your playfulness.
Author:  the Padma [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First timer seeking info on headstock tuner hole placement
George L wrote:
.... By the wording and tone of your response it seems that you were offended by my post. If that is so, I apologize. Your comments are often quite jocular and entertaining and my intent was to mirror your playfulness.



Well George,

I thank you for publicly posting an apology, but it is I that must apologize, for this thread and you brought to my attention that the Padma has gotten a little edgy as of late, not taking people at face value and been running on some sort of "is he one of us or one of them" mentality. Thank you for this. It ain't the way to be treating peoples. [uncle]

As such, please accept my apology for taking a swipe at you.

And while me at it me may as well say sorry to the few others on this forum that I have snapped at as of late. Sorry.

Me will be watch me self a lot closer now.


blessings
the
Padma
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