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| New to MOP http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16586 |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | New to MOP |
I’m just starting to cut MOP and so far not to well. My first and only attempt so far was done using a 3.0 Olsen blade with 30 teeth per inch and no backing board. Should I get blades from Stewmac with higher tooth count? If so, which ones? If I glue the MOP to a backer board, how thick and can I use any wood that I have in my shop or should I get “special” wood? I’ve also read somewhere that it’s a good idea to run the blade through some beeswax everyso often. I see all these beautiful inlays out there and it seems like everyone can do it but me so I’m determined to get this one under my belt now. Help? Hutch |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
Depending on what shape you are cutting you will need 3 and 0 blades for general use, 00 for more intricate work and 000 for very fine work. A lubricant is needed to keep these thin blades cool as the slightest heat will break them. I use Pro Cut lube. On fine work the cuts need to be is smaller amouts at a time. If you try to take too much of a cut you risk causing fractures in the shell.Always cut on the down stroke and always keep the blade vertical and perpendicular to the work. You will need to make a jewelers cutting board to support the shell as you cut. Also always wear a respirator as the dust will cause silicosis. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
Oh and get a good jewelers loop visor. You will need to be looking close at the work as you cut and a very good light source is also imperative to save your eyes. |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
MichaelP wrote: Depending on what shape you are cutting you will need 3 and 0 blades for general use, 00 for more intricate work and 000 for very fine work. A lubricant is needed to keep these thin blades cool as the slightest heat will break them. I use Pro Cut lube. On fine work the cuts need to be is smaller amouts at a time. If you try to take too much of a cut you risk causing fractures in the shell.Always cut on the down stroke and always keep the blade vertical and perpendicular to the work. You will need to make a jewelers cutting board to support the shell as you cut. Also always wear a respirator as the dust will cause silicosis. Thanks. I do wear a mask and a lighted headband magnifier, I have air blowing the dust away. I made a birdsmouth board as I've seen on the Stewmac site but it seems like I spend halh my time cutting both the board and the MOP. When you say fine work, would that include a signature? Thats what I'm trying to cut. Should I just go to a 000 blade? Maybe I'll try to find a few different blades and some Pro Cut lube or something similar at Woodcraft today. |
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| Author: | 1bordeaux [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I personally do not use lube; I found a loss of "feel", but it's at user's discretion. (It does seem to help some blades last longer). I cut the majority of my inlays with 3/0 blades from Rio Grande, called "Laser blades". Once again, persnal preference! As Mike said, a cutting board is a must! You can make one easily enough... Also, buy some small needle files. I still use them to clean up rough lines / edges, as necessary. Make sure you tension the blade enough, usually by "picking" it to a high bell like tone, and, similar to driving a car, "look to the horizon" while cutting. (In other words, don't stare directly at the point of saw cut on the line, but rather slightly beyond.) Keep at it and soon you'll see the results of your efforts! Best of luck, Paul |
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| Author: | SniderMike [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I usually use a 3/0 blade for pearl. No idea what the tooth count is. There should be no need to glue the pearl to any type of backer. How thick is your pearl? The stuff I work with is usually around .060" Like Michael said, you do need a "cutting board" of some type, also called a V-block. I do not use a loop visor, but you definitely need good lighting. |
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| Author: | SniderMike [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
You guys are fast typers! I don't usually use any lube either. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
banjopicks wrote: MichaelP wrote: Depending on what shape you are cutting you will need 3 and 0 blades for general use, 00 for more intricate work and 000 for very fine work. A lubricant is needed to keep these thin blades cool as the slightest heat will break them. I use Pro Cut lube. On fine work the cuts need to be is smaller amouts at a time. If you try to take too much of a cut you risk causing fractures in the shell.Always cut on the down stroke and always keep the blade vertical and perpendicular to the work. You will need to make a jewelers cutting board to support the shell as you cut. Also always wear a respirator as the dust will cause silicosis. Thanks. I do wear a mask and a lighted headband magnifier, I have air blowing the dust away. I made a birdsmouth board as I've seen on the Stewmac site but it seems like I spend halh my time cutting both the board and the MOP. When you say fine work, would that include a signature? Thats what I'm trying to cut. Should I just go to a 000 blade? Maybe I'll try to find a few different blades and some Pro Cut lube or something similar at Woodcraft today. Hutch The trick to not cutting the board is the saw moves very little as you keep the blade vertical and perpendicular to the shell. You have to move the shell around a tad bit after each stoke. But the relative position of the blade says pretty much stable. A signature is a big leap of faith for a first time cut. How long and wide is it and how intricate is the signature? |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
This is it. I'm not even sure if I'l use it but this is my goal. Attachment: HutchLogo.jpg It's .6" x 1" |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
Thats pretty big, cutting should not be a huge issue |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
If you're making it out of one piece, I'd recommend a thin backer board. There are a few places, generally between letters, where a script-ish signature would love to break on you if your saw stroke is anything but dead on vertical. You can stick MOP to hardboard with hide glue or superglue. The hide glue comes off with water, the superglue comes off with acetone. Like others said, move the piece not the saw. Having a little resistance from the board will probably help you hold your cuts straighter, too. |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
Hutch, I've cut several inlays in .050" MOP, using a 3/0 blade & no lube or backer. As Bob says, they do like to break at the narrow bits, but no breaks in the last one so it can be done. |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I'd be thrilled if I could accomplish one like that. How many have you done if you don't mind me asking? I have a feeling I'm going to go through my whole 1 ounce stack before I get something decent. I hope I'm wrong. With all the help I'm getting here, well, we'll see. |
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| Author: | ChuckH [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
banjopicks wrote: This is it. I'm not even sure if I'l use it but this is my goal. Attachment: HutchLogo.jpg It's .6" x 1" Hey Hutch, Welcome to the OLF and that's my name too.  Looks pretty good and will look even better on a guitar. When you get a bunch of them cut out send me a few....lol I thought about putting HUTCH on my headstock but I'm just going with a C H Hope you get this MOP cutting down! |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I've done six, and all were usable. (A break can be repaired with CA if carefull). Mine's a 3-pc. inlay which helps in handling. You may be able to do the same if you doctor the tail of the "t" so it doesn't join the "c". |
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| Author: | 1bordeaux [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
On delicate pieces, I also drill a small hole inside the blank near my starting point. This prevents the weakness, to a degree, of having cut through the side of the blank ,which exaggerates the pattern and blank flexing while cutting. Another method to use if you're having breakage issues in the small sections is to cut one whole side of the inlay, top or bottom side, then wick some thin super glue into the cut you just made, effectively gluing it back to the shell blank. Now there is all kinds of strength. Use a piercing hole, as in the first example, and continue cutting the inlay. Then drop the inlay in acetone to release. This will work if you're not in a hurry! Be sure and let the saw cut at "it's own pace", don't force it around the pattern. |
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| Author: | CraigL [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I got my technique from Larry Robinson's "The Art of Inlay". I found it very useful and a pretty book to look at as well. It describes some of the details above also with pictures. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I have cut a lot of intricate pieces over the years Signatures are among the most difficult due to lots of small areas subject to easy fracture. With white MOP I have never found fixing breakage with CA very expectable as the brake line on white MOP is impossible to hide. Paul’s method of one side then the other and drill ID cuts and feeding the blade through the drill hole is good technique. Be aware when drilling that you need to allow the drill to do the work as bearing down on the shell will crack it in a flash. I often use a tip that I got many years ago from Frank Ford on keeping the blade vertical and perpendicular to the work. I have a 2’ piece of broom handle that I attach to the handle of my jewelers saw the other in goes into a 1-1/4” pvc pipe on a base that sets on the floor under the position of my cutting board. As I saw the broom hand goes up and down inside the pvc pipe keeping my blade always in a vertical position. I only use this rig when working on prolonged cuts where control is critical. But it is a great training device for new cutters. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I've never heard the CA-fill (PaulB) or the guided saw (MichaelP) ideas before, and I think those two ideas in concert will put you waaaay ahead of the curve on early (and later) successes since they essentially solve the two big issues with hand sawing (blade control and material fragility). |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
I now have about 4 hours total into this and I'm getting a little better at it but I still am having trouble making turns. How do you do it consistently? I'm using a 3/0 blade and I'm considering using something coarser to get the straight portions done a little faster. What do you think. BTW, I know that it's generally considered a no-no but I'm gluing the cracked peices together for this first attempt and it's looking pretty good. It's very hard for me to throw 4 hours worth of work away when I'm lucky if I get that many hours in a week to spend on it. How long can I expect it to take for this simple signature as I gain more skill? |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
Your logo is 6" x 1"? That is pretty big all right, are you inlaying it on the fingerboard? How many pieces does it consist of? To make turns, just keep pumping that saw gently and slowly turn the piece on your work board. Cut into a waste area if needed to keep the saw moving while turning the blank, then cut back to the line. If the blade binds when you turn, it is very easy to break the pearl. |
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| Author: | Mark L. [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
As Arnt said, keep the blade moving as you apply gentle side pressure toward your turn. Don't get in a hurry! Let the saw do the cutting, don't force it!! I always make a copy on paper of what I want to cut out, and glue it to the surface of the pearl, then cut through both paper and pearl. Remember, always keep the blade moving and go slow. Use needle files to trim up corners and edges after you have it cut out. I would think that with a little practice you could cut it out in one to two hours. Good luck!! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
Tight turns are accomplished a little bit at a time, Short down stoke turn the work, short stroke turn the work, so on and so on. As far as going to a less tooth more aggressive blade to speed up straights cuts. Don't do it. Three things will happen, none good. You will break a lot of blades and you will end up going off line quickly and you will crack the shell. Let the shell tell you haw fast to cut. slow and easy gets the job done. Quick is not efficient. |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
Quote: Your logo is 6" x 1"? That would be .6" x 1" Quote: I would think that with a little practice you could cut it out in one to two hours. That would be much more exceptable. Thanks I think I'll try to just keep cutting them but I still will probably use my first in the neck I made for my brothers Hound Dog. |
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| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New to MOP |
MichaelP wrote: Tight turns are accomplished a little bit at a time, Short down stoke turn the work, short stroke turn the work, so on and so on. As far as going to a less tooth more aggressive blade to speed up straights cuts. Don't do it. Three things will happen, none good. You will break a lot of blades and you will end up going off line quickly and you will crack the shell. Let the shell tell you haw fast to cut. slow and easy gets the job done. Quick is not efficient. I'll take tour word for it and stick with the 3/0 or finer. Thanks |
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