Sylvan, thank you for your article. I know what I'm doing tomorrow!
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| Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16408 |
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| Author: | SkyHigh [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
Has anyone used the Fox bender plan LMII sells? How did you like the plan? Also, what are some of the differences that Universal bender being sold by BluesCreek versus Fox style bender that's being at LMII? Thanks, David |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
Hey David, I used the LMI plans to build my bender and was very happy with them. -Mark |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
I used the LMI plan too, except I went right to heating blanket and so I didn't put in the light fixtures. I've had no problems with it. Since I don't use the lights, I'm tempted to start building solid forms. Jim |
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| Author: | Dave Livermore [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
Has anyone used the light fixtures? I'm tempted to use the light fixtures if they work, especially since the heating blanket and controls could add a couple hundred dollars of cost to the project. dave |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
Dave buddy another recommendation for the heating blanket and controller from John Hall - Blues Creek here. I did not go the bulb method after reading here about "issues" that others had when using bulbs. Regarding the cost of a blanket - sometimes things that you will need to be successful are just going to cost something because they provide real value. Crack one single set of expensive wood with bulbs and you could have paid for a blanket and not cracked any thing. So my friend if it were me I would go with either a bending pipe, so that you have some feel for the wood, or a Fox style bender with a blanket but I would not use a bender without a blanket. |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
David I built a fox bender from the LMI plans and it looks identical to the one Bluescreek sells. John Hall's (Bluescreek) is made very nicely from Baltic Birch plywood and he sells the bending forms for virtually any known style of guitar. (He also has the matching Body molds as well). The only modification I made to mine was to use a 12" press screw as I wasn't able to readily locally source the 18" the plans call for. When I first built mine I used good ole 3/4" Home Depot plywood and it is still going strong. I used 3 x 200 watt bulbs in mine and had no trouble bending sides. I wouldn't recommend bending a cutaway on a foxbender using bulbs as a heat source as the bulbs don't get sufficient heat into the area that will become the cutaway section. Heat blankets aren't a necessity but if you build a few you will most likely want one as it is easier to bring the sides up to desired heat. One suggestion if I may is to install a shut off timer and some sort of temperature control device. I use a 1000 watt dimmer switch and a thermometer. |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
I built a bender a while back with bulbs only (no dimmers) & it's worked well for me. Basically, I just reverse-engineered pics from LMI & various websites (turbocadd helps) Bulbs are 150w (I change the upper to 200w on cutaways) & rams are 5/8" x 10tpi threaded rod. Probably cost $60 total My sequence is paint/wipe off with distilled water (both sides), wrap in tinfoil & position between pre-heating slats. After contact, advance waist ram 1 turn per minute 'till bottomed, then do bouts. Cutaway is the same (over the "hump", then 1 turn per minute 'till done). (I think this is the secret- advance is so gradual that the wood yeilds without protest.) Lights immediately off, cool 2-3hrs, recook 10 min., cool overnight. I thin my sides to 075" (.065 in the tight bits) While blankets are I'm sure very nice, my limited experience tells me if your doing non-cutaway guitars, you should have no problem with bulbs. I've done several sets, all cutaways- all curly maple (not the easiest) without mishap. (...couldn't say that about the hotpipe!!). |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
It is nice to see so many telling others of our work. I didn't use the lmi plan for my bender. I actually designed my machine about 8 years ago. I started with jim williams guitar makers manual. I took he advice and my engineering experience . After about 3 different prototypes and 1 1/2 years of work. After building and perfecting my design I got a LMI print as a present. The one thing I would recommend if you use the LMI plan is to make the width from 6 inches as they show and make it 6 1/16 wide. The advantage to this is that if make this 6 inches , the industrial standard for slats and blankets are 6 inched but often if you are dead 6 , the slats and blankets won't lay right and can cause you some issues. That little bit of opening can make it very comfortable to work with. Another note is that light bulb units are more dangerous than heat blankets. The lights are the heat source and you heat the whole machine not just the wood. My early bender charred up and was self consuming . That one is no longer used. If you are smart you will use the blankets and avoid light bulbs. Have fun and enjoy the hobby john hall |
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| Author: | KenH [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
for the record, I bought my bender from John at bluescreek and I am overwhelmingly happy with it. I have made several molds for different guitar shapes since, and they slide right into the bender. Changing molds is easy. I learned to bend sides from Frank Finoccio, who uses the light bulb bender. The inside of his bender is charred black and the whole thing is slow because the bulbs dont give off immediate heat. After seeing the charred insides of his bender, it made me even more ready to spend the money for the blanket. I have not regretted the purchase one bit! You can save a few bucks and buy a cheaper blanket than what he sells, but you will be buying another one soon.....and another...and another. His blankets are top quality and you will get hundreads of bends out of them. You get what you pay for. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
I stared with light bulbs and you need thermal shielding on the inside of you molds but they work. If you use bulbs I find that the waist gets hotter quicker and I solved this by putting a 600W dimmer on each bulb. I ran the waist at the lower setting and upper bout a tad higher and the lower bout almost always at full bore. I would adjust as needed according to the temp of the wood where I was bending at the time and turned down as I completed the bend in that area. That said with bulbs it takes longer to get to temp and is harder to maintain a constant temp as compared to using a blanket. I will tell you your bend failure rate using a blanket is far less than with bulbs as the wood is heated equally and evenly. $120 for a blanket and controller is a small price for the convenience in my eyes |
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| Author: | Jamie_M [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
Where have you guys found the press screw needed for the bender? I've looked all over locally and can't find anything. Also, what diameter screw are you using? |
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| Author: | Sylvan [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
A student and I redesigned the Fox bender to make it much more affordable. The entire unit (cutaway and all) can be built for about $150.00 and an afternoon of work. All parts can be purchased either locally or from the places I designated in the article at my web site. Go http://www.wellsguitars.com/Articles/BendingMachineRevised.html. Enjoy! |
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| Author: | joe white [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
Sylvan, thank you for your article. I know what I'm doing tomorrow!
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Fox Bending machine plan @LMII? |
I used the LMI plans and used light bulbs for 2 years before buying a silicone blanket from John Hall. If you use the bulbs, go with 200W on the ends and 150W in the center. I also lined the inside with aluminum flashing to reflect heat and protect the forms from burning. Now that I have the blanket, I have heat from both sides of the wood being bent. If you don't have the time to build the jig, buy one from John Hall. |
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